Individual Privacy Rights

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Dewey
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Individual Privacy Rights

Post by Dewey »

Personal privacy is a hot commodity these days. We angrily complain when the government expropiates it even as we eagerly give it away on the internet. To whom does it belong? Who in this rapidly opening, increasingly connected society owns your personal privacy?

Privacy of the individual is a complicated and ambigious subject. It's too big to pack into a single forum discussion that should, as I understand it, exchange fairly specific ideas rather than just general remarks. So, for a starter, I picked this question about rights;

DOES THE INDIVIDUAL HAVE A RIGHT TO PRIVACY? WHY OR WHY NOT?
NSUSA
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Post by NSUSA »

That's a good question. I think a person has a right to not have someone invade their privacy, such as being spied on in the shower against their will. However, people willingly give away their privacy to do normal things, like fill out a job application.
h_a_m_247
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Trust/ Privacy

Post by h_a_m_247 »

Try having your dad and you getting into a fight and him going through your stuff... He has no reason to do it, just starts to tear apart your stuff in your backpack just because he doesn't believe that you aren't doing your homework...

He then makes you get on the internet go onto your email and point out every single person in your address book and tell him how you know them and if he knows them...My dad tells me that I have to make my friends come meet him. When I start pushing back about how he doesn't trust me how am I supposed to trust him, he starts to back off a little.

He then takes off to your room and tears apart your room, claiming that you do drugs and drink alcohol in there...For one I do not do either, that would ruin my chances of getting into the college that I want to get into...He doesn't believe me...How about that for invasion of privacy and trust?
anarchyisbliss
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Post by anarchyisbliss »

Of course , the right's of an individual should always be considered before the right's of majority society. The government should not have the right to sacrifice privacy for safety.
"If there is hope, it lies in the proles." - George Orwell, 1984
Dewey
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Individual Privacy Rights

Post by Dewey »

anarchyisbliss:

You said: "Of course, the right's of an individual should always be considered before the right's of majority society." I interpret "rights" to mean "moral rights" (no murdering) and "considered" to mean "placed" (the individual's moral rights always take precedence).

Putting aside for the moment your overall rejection of the need for government, do you believe that we should be allowed to withhold private information about our vision, accident record, etc. when we apply for renewed drivers' licences?
anarchyisbliss
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Re: Individual Privacy Rights

Post by anarchyisbliss »

Dewey wrote:anarchyisbliss:

You said: "Of course, the right's of an individual should always be considered before the right's of majority society." I interpret "rights" to mean "moral rights" (no murdering) and "considered" to mean "placed" (the individual's moral rights always take precedence).

Putting aside for the moment your overall rejection of the need for government, do you believe that we should be allowed to withhold private information about our vision, accident record, etc. when we apply for renewed drivers' licences?
Yes we should, but I don't think we should withhold that information. I agree that those reports shouldn't be required but I cant see why a person who knows they have bad vision would apply for a license knowing that they cant see the road very well and possibly endanger others. And about the accident record, I think that should be completely private because certain authorities use those records to keep people from getting licenses because they think that just because you have gotten in an accident before that you are inherently prone to more accidents which is untrue.
"If there is hope, it lies in the proles." - George Orwell, 1984
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Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
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Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

I cannot make much of a statement about limiting someone's privacy without knowing the situation. The method of and reason for limiting the privacy matters a lot. For example, giving a convicted murderer privacy would be different than giving it to a regular citizen. Breaking into someone's home and going through their private stuff without permission is very different than requiring that the person provide you with certain information before you do something for them.

Before we can start making judgments about limiting individual privacy, I think we must come up with classifications for the different types of privacy and the different types of limitations on privacy, namely by the reason for and method of privacy or privacy limitation. Then we can judge each class or category of privacy and privacy limitation separately.
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

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I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
Dewey
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Individual Privacy Rights

Post by Dewey »

anarchyisbliss:

You said: "Yes we should (be allowed to withhold private information about our vision, accident record, etc. when we apply for renewed drivers' licences) but I don't think we should...." And, you can't see why anyone with poor vision would withhold that information and possibly endanger others.

I share your indignation over such irresponsible acts, but I am also aware of my own imperfect responsibility record. We individuals sometimes just don't voluntarily do what we should. You don't want our group, our community, our government, whatever one chooses to name it, to provide preventive control measures. Is there another, better way to deal with the problem?
anarchyisbliss
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Re: Individual Privacy Rights

Post by anarchyisbliss »

Dewey wrote:anarchyisbliss:

You said: "Yes we should (be allowed to withhold private information about our vision, accident record, etc. when we apply for renewed drivers' licences) but I don't think we should...." And, you can't see why anyone with poor vision would withhold that information and possibly endanger others.

I share your indignation over such irresponsible acts, but I am also aware of my own imperfect responsibility record. We individuals sometimes just don't voluntarily do what we should. You don't want our group, our community, our government, whatever one chooses to name it, to provide preventive control measures. Is there another, better way to deal with the problem?
Thank you for asking. As an anarchist I dont believe in the concept of an elite group of human beings telling other human beings what they have to do. I don't mind rules however, and if it became a rule for you to provide those records that would be understandable. Also I prefer rewarding the good instead of punishing the bad. People who keep their records in check would receive some sort of monetary reward or a coupon of some sort.
"If there is hope, it lies in the proles." - George Orwell, 1984
Daniel Owen
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Post by Daniel Owen »

I stand for total individual liberty except where that liberty infringes upon the liberty of others. I've got no time for nosey parkers!
Daniel Owen
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Re: Individual Privacy Rights

Post by Daniel Owen »

anarchyisbliss wrote:As an anarchist I dont believe in the concept of an elite group of human beings telling other human beings what they have to do.
I agree. Those who want power over others are the least qualified to have it.
I don't mind rules however, and if it became a rule for you to provide those records that would be understandable.
I would expect a decentralised classless polity to have laws. I know I want 'em!
Dewey
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Individual Privacy Rights

Post by Dewey »

Scott, the best approach to this discussion would be, as you indicate, to categorize the rights and separately evaluate them. Even confined to rights, privacy is a big, complicated subject.

anachyisbliss and I just jumped in and landed, as it happened, on the category of privacy of personal data relinquished for benefits. That 's not the most efficient way to learn. Hopefully we'll make it up by jumping-to-learn a lot.


Dewey
Dewey
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Individual Property Rights

Post by Dewey »

Anarchyisbliss, you said: "Also, I prefer rewarding the good instead of punishing the bad. People who keep their records in check would receive some sort of monetary reward or a coupon of some sort."

Question: What do you think should be done if, despite the rewards offered, many people elect to withhold information regarding their poor vision and falsely obtain driving licences? Should they be punished? Should their rewards be increased?

Also, how do you reconcile your moral indignation over these irresponsible people with your willingness to bribe them into responsibility?


Dewey
anarchyisbliss
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Re: Individual Property Rights

Post by anarchyisbliss »

Dewey wrote:Anarchyisbliss, you said: "Also, I prefer rewarding the good instead of punishing the bad. People who keep their records in check would receive some sort of monetary reward or a coupon of some sort."

Question: What do you think should be done if, despite the rewards offered, many people elect to withhold information regarding their poor vision and falsely obtain driving licences? Should they be punished? Should their rewards be increased?

Also, how do you reconcile your moral indignation over these irresponsible people with your willingness to bribe them into responsibility?


Dewey
In a perfect world their would be no cars and we would be in a state of nature which is the ultimate goal of anarchy almost a devolution. I would take the Libertarian approach and have a small task enforce in stated to have something done or just go talk ot the people and see why they are withholding their information. There is always a psychological motivation for deviant behavior.
"If there is hope, it lies in the proles." - George Orwell, 1984
Daniel Owen
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Re: Individual Property Rights

Post by Daniel Owen »

anarchyisbliss wrote:
Dewey wrote:Anarchyisbliss, you said: "Also, I prefer rewarding the good instead of punishing the bad. People who keep their records in check would receive some sort of monetary reward or a coupon of some sort."

Question: What do you think should be done if, despite the rewards offered, many people elect to withhold information regarding their poor vision and falsely obtain driving licences? Should they be punished? Should their rewards be increased?

Also, how do you reconcile your moral indignation over these irresponsible people with your willingness to bribe them into responsibility?


Dewey
In a perfect world their would be no cars and we would be in a state of nature which is the ultimate goal of anarchy almost a devolution.
No its not. You're talking rubbish, I'm afraid. The anarchist movement has always championed technological progress, industry and large-scale civilisation. Only a handful of bourgeois neo-revisionists think otherwise -- and they come out of the hippy American "New Left" rather than anarchism. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I would take the Libertarian approach and have a small task enforce in stated to have something done or just go talk ot the people and see why they are withholding their information. There is always a psychological motivation for deviant behavior.
This seems kind of weird and authoritarian.
"What does not kill me, makes me stronger." Friedrich Nietzsche
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