Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#46  Postby Wayne92587 » May 17th, 2015, 12:43 pm

You people do not have a chance in finding clarity in Amorality.

There is more clarity in amorality than there is in morality.

Being amoral, one does not concern themselves with what is right or wrong.

If Boundlessness is good enough for God it is good enough for me.
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality



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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#47  Postby DPMartin » May 19th, 2015, 3:24 pm

Wayne92587 wrote:You people do not have a chance in finding clarity in Amorality.

There is more clarity in amorality than there is in morality.

Being amoral, one does not concern themselves with what is right or wrong.

If Boundlessness is good enough for God it is good enough for me.



How is it that boundlessness is good for your god? Does that put you equal with your god? And which god are you talking about?
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#48  Postby Wayne92587 » May 24th, 2015, 12:11 pm

DPMartin, surely must understand that in order for God to be boundless that God must be Amoral.

In order to be free, man must also be amoral, which is a far cry from being Immoral.
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#49  Postby Belinda » May 25th, 2015, 4:34 am

Wayne wrote:

If Boundlessness is good enough for God it is good enough for me.


Wayne might benefit from taking a long look at the version of 'God' that he has been half-taught to have faith in.

If Wayne is a Christian he might be well to go along with the teaching that the life of Jesus lights the way to the real God.
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#50  Postby DPMartin » May 25th, 2015, 11:13 am

Wayne92587 wrote:DPMartin, surely must understand that in order for God to be boundless that God must be Amoral.

In order to be free, man must also be amoral, which is a far cry from being Immoral.



Whether you believe that God is amoral or not, is irrelevant, considering you’re not God (as in Creator and Judge of all things). Man is required to have a set of agreed rules of, dos and don’ts to coexist with one another. Could be in a household, a community, a group of friends, a nation a a community of neighboring nations. Which are always required to know, understand, and accept a set of terms for peaceful coexisting with expected results. Could be as simple a as staying on one’s side of the road when driving a car.

And if the God you are speaking of is the Lord God of Israel then you should already understand that man is required to have a agreement with his Maker, because man’s Maker requires it, even in the Garden with Adam. Hence morals are a requirement of human nature, otherwise human nature has no real value. If someone always agrees with others to do this or that, and never does so, then he and his word is nether valued, nor trusted.
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#51  Postby Wayne92587 » May 25th, 2015, 12:02 pm

Belinda, I have no interest is challenging what you believe.

The most that I understand about Christianity is that Jesus is God.

-- Updated May 25th, 2015, 9:25 am to add the following --

DPMartin wrote; #50 to know, understand, and accept a set of terms for peaceful coexisting with expected results. Could be as simple as simple a as staying on one’s side of the road when driving a car.


Wayne wrote;

Such a law, staying one side of the road, would be considered to be the Rule of law, not Moral Law.

Law as in the Rule of Law is not absolute Law.

In fact at one time the moral law of the church was not absolute, was flexible.

A Man that stole food because his family was hungry was not judge in the same manner as the Man that stold food whose family was not starving. Would that I could, I would destroy Moral Law!

I would separate church and state and rule according to the rule of Law, the spirit of the Law not the letter of the law; do you know the difference?
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#52  Postby DPMartin » May 25th, 2015, 5:36 pm

Wayne92587 wrote:
DPMartin wrote; #50 to know, understand, and accept a set of terms for peaceful coexisting with expected results. Could be as simple as simple a as staying on one’s side of the road when driving a car.


Wayne wrote;

Such a law, staying one side of the road, would be considered to be the Rule of law, not Moral Law.

Law as in the Rule of Law is not absolute Law.

In fact at one time the moral law of the church was not absolute, was flexible.

A Man that stole food because his family was hungry was not judge in the same manner as the Man that stold food whose family was not starving. Would that I could, I would destroy Moral Law!

I would separate church and state and rule according to the rule of Law, the spirit of the Law not the letter of the law; do you know the difference?



Nope, not staying on your side of the road if it were do to drinking would be immoral, or committing suicide and taking other lives with you so on and so forth, would be immoral, hence a set of morals involved. If it’s found that you were at fault and were guilty of negligence do to some deliberate act on your part, (maybe playing with your cell phone or passing because you are a aggressive driver) then that is most definitely a moral issue. If you check, the government before it agrees to let you drive on it’s roads, requires you to know, understand and accept a set of terms for peaceful use of their roads with expected results. Hence a driver’s licence that can be removed by the government that you are in agreement with, according to their terms.

Wherever there is a agreement, morals and or ethics, are in play.


As far as the rest of your posting, don’t confuse Mercy, or in this case reason for Mercy with Morals do to a agreement, which in this case is civil law. The type of agreement nor the source of the agreement doesn’t excuse, the infraction. Circumstances involved with a case by case infraction may give reason for the agreed authority in the agreement to forgive a infraction. No one deserves mercy or forgiveness because they agreed to the agreement, which doesn’t judge. It is those in the agreement that judge. The state of Arizona doesn’t make rulings on incident that happen on the roads in New Mexico.


Also in the case you’ve mentioned with the desperate taking the bread, if you notice that it is written in the law, and judgement isn't required, on the part of anyone authorised to judge infractions of that law. Hence it is agreed in the law that one who is desperate for food isn’t treated the same as a thief who might be sold into slavery for his infraction which is also the law in that case. Therefore immoral if it’s not done to the thief accordingly and the hungry man is treated as said in the law. But both may in their individual cases may have reason found for Mercy buy those authorised in the agreement to enforce the law.
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#53  Postby Belinda » May 26th, 2015, 4:02 am

Wayne wrote:

The most that I understand about Christianity is that Jesus is God.


I am sorry that you don't try to understand a lot more. Are you afraid to understand how you came to believe what you do believe?
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#54  Postby Wayne92587 » May 27th, 2015, 2:12 pm

Belinda as a Christian are you saying that Jesus Christ is not God incarnate.

-- Updated May 27th, 2015, 11:14 am to add the following --

Belinda, why to you suppose that experienced Life more than I have.

-- Updated May 27th, 2015, 11:15 am to add the following --

I need to repeat the post;

Belinda, why to you suppose that you have experienced Life more than I have?

-- Updated May 27th, 2015, 11:36 am to add the following --

DPMartin wrote #53 Nope, not staying on your side of the road if it were do to drinking would be immoral,


would it be immoral is you were not drunk??
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#55  Postby Belinda » May 27th, 2015, 2:50 pm

Wayne, it is really quite important for a Christian to understand that Jesus came to demonstrate and teach how to be good.
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#56  Postby DPMartin » May 27th, 2015, 6:56 pm

Wayne92587 wrote:
DPMartin wrote #53 Nope, not staying on your side of the road if it were do to drinking would be immoral,


would it be immoral is you were not drunk??



If you read the rest of the posting you would know the answer to whether there would other circumstances that would qualify as immoral, or against the agreed agreement. Of which is merely an example to illustrate a point, not a proof.

-- Updated May 27th, 2015, 6:59 pm to add the following --

Belinda wrote:Wayne, it is really quite important for a Christian to understand that Jesus came to demonstrate and teach how to be good.


No Belinda, Jesus teaches that only God is good (Lk:18:19), and that we need the Life that is Christ’s (Concept of “born again”) to be acceptable to God in God’s Presence, and be delivered from the condemnation that is being without God and out of God’s presence. Human nature, in God’s site and Judgement, is bankrupted of the things of Righteousness which are of God that is good.

Just so you know, next time you want to state what Jesus Christ teaches.
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#57  Postby Belinda » May 28th, 2015, 1:55 am

DPMartin wrote:


Belinda wrote:Wayne, it is really quite important for a Christian to understand that Jesus came to demonstrate and teach how to be good.


No Belinda, Jesus teaches that only God is good (Lk:18:19), and that we need the Life that is Christ’s (Concept of “born again”) to be acceptable to God in God’s Presence, and be delivered from the condemnation that is being without God and out of God’s presence. Human nature, in God’s site and Judgement, is bankrupted of the things of Righteousness which are of God that is good.

Just so you know, next time you want to state what Jesus Christ teaches.


I wish that DPMartin had read what I wrote a little more carefully. I did not write that Jesus is synonymous with good. I wrote that Jesus came to demonstrate and teach how to be good.

Indeed Jesus is reported as saying "Why call you me good? Only God is good." It is fairly apparent that Jesus was opposed to idolatry which would have been the case if Jesus had been worshipped as Good personified.
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#58  Postby Wayne92587 » May 28th, 2015, 11:14 am

Belinda, you are so far of base it is funny.

the Muslim and the Jew both believe that there is no such animal as God incarnate. The Christian does believe in the existence of a God incarnate, believe that Jesus is God, period.

There is no Christianity if you do not believe that Jesus the Christ is God incarnate.
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#59  Postby DPMartin » May 28th, 2015, 12:02 pm

Belinda wrote:DPMartin wrote:


Belinda wrote:Wayne, it is really quite important for a Christian to understand that Jesus came to demonstrate and teach how to be good.


No Belinda, Jesus teaches that only God is good (Lk:18:19), and that we need the Life that is Christ’s (Concept of “born again”) to be acceptable to God in God’s Presence, and be delivered from the condemnation that is being without God and out of God’s presence. Human nature, in God’s site and Judgement, is bankrupted of the things of Righteousness which are of God that is good.

Just so you know, next time you want to state what Jesus Christ teaches.


I wish that DPMartin had read what I wrote a little more carefully. I did not write that Jesus is synonymous with good. I wrote that Jesus came to demonstrate and teach how to be good.

Indeed Jesus is reported as saying "Why call you me good? Only God is good." It is fairly apparent that Jesus was opposed to idolatry which would have been the case if Jesus had been worshipped as Good personified.




Again, it seems you’ve been misinformed, or you don’t understand just what the Messiah is, to save souls from. Jesus never refused worship, or acknowledgment from the faithful/believer. And no, Jesus didn’t come into the world to teach people how to behave better, be goodie two shoes, or happy shiny people to make the world a better place for you to live in. What is good is in God’s Judgement and the faithful agree and trust that God’s Judgement is good, (even the flood for example) otherwise one thinks that their view of god is only good in their own judgement which is a god made up in their own imagination of what they believe a god ought to be. In order to be in their judgement of what love and goodness is. Basically what is good for themselves in their own view or judgement, of which they will not surrender. Jesus’ focus, if you will, was on teaching about His Kingdom (the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God) of which, He is King, and He also taught how to get in it. Which is not in this world, in full glory, yet, but is in the follower of Jesus Christ.
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Re: Article: The Clarity Of Amorality

Post Number:#60  Postby Belinda » May 29th, 2015, 3:07 am

Wayne92587 wrote:Belinda, you are so far of base it is funny.

the Muslim and the Jew both believe that there is no such animal as God incarnate. The Christian does believe in the existence of a God incarnate, believe that Jesus is God, period.

There is no Christianity if you do not believe that Jesus the Christ is God incarnate.


Great challenge,Wayne, which I can answer for you!



What you write is true. But it's not the whole truth. It's true that Muslims don't believe that God became incarnate but Muslims do believe that Jesus is a worthy prophet, second only to Muhammad. It was the prophetic ethics of Jesus that I urged you to pay attention to, not the supposed supernatural deification of Jesus as 'Christ'. Liberal Jews and Muslims have no problem with the ethics of Jesus.

Wayne wrote:
There is no Christianity if you do not believe that Jesus the Christ is God incarnate

.

I believe this is true according to the official Apostles' Creed which Christians are required to adhere to.

However one regards the Creed it is more important for everybody regardless of creed to take from Jesus his ethics much more important than the supernatural doctrines. One needs to be free to choose, and not swallow whole what priests tell us to swallow.
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