Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness?

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Bermudj
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj » May 9th, 2014, 4:40 pm

Belinda wrote:Bermudj you confuse empathy and sympathy
The issue is not which of these two positive emotions, the issue is that too much positivity is no good either.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Logic_ill » May 9th, 2014, 4:44 pm

They may be symptoms of humans but they may be overcome...

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj » May 10th, 2014, 12:08 am

Logic_ill wrote:They may be symptoms of humans but they may be overcome...
Anger is a very useful emotion in the body. The reason all of us are here exchanging messages in these forums is driven by anger. Otherwise we would be completely silent and there would be no forums at all :!:
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Theophane » May 10th, 2014, 2:37 am

The reason all of us are here exchanging messages in these forums is driven by anger.
I don't think that's true at all. If it were, there'd be a lot more profanity and personal attacks.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Belinda » May 10th, 2014, 2:44 am

Bermudj , you have the beginnings of good ideas but they don't make enough sense by the time you stop writing them down.

Anger is a useful emotion because all emotions are necessary components in our living systems . But emotions are not in themselves enough to keep us healthily alive. We modify our raw emotions and make them more useful by adding reason and knowledge to what is making us angry.

Anger is a reaction to fear commonly called the 'fight' reaction. Better than fighting are reasoning and knowledge which lead to more useful ways than fighting or unexpressed anger to conquer the fear.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj » May 10th, 2014, 4:09 am

Belinda wrote:Bermudj , you have the beginnings of good ideas but they don't make enough sense by the time you stop writing them down.

Anger is a useful emotion because all emotions are necessary components in our living systems . But emotions are not in themselves enough to keep us healthily alive. We modify our raw emotions and make them more useful by adding reason and knowledge to what is making us angry.

Anger is a reaction to fear commonly called the 'fight' reaction. Better than fighting are reasoning and knowledge which lead to more useful ways than fighting or unexpressed anger to conquer the fear.
We make use of the emotions to live healthily, rather than let the emotions make use of us to live the way the emotions would like to live. Debating is a form of fighting, it is not physical, nevertheless it is fighting.

Furthermore, the damage inflicted on others using words, specially the one delivered by those who have excelled at sarcasm, is sometimes much worse than the physical damage a bully, who has lost its temper, causes when he leaves his victim with a black eye.
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Wilson » May 10th, 2014, 2:58 pm

Scott wrote:Do you think that anger, discompassion and hatred are usually symptoms of weakness? Why or why not?
No, not always. There are strong people lacking compassion who enjoy dominating others. Only by stretching the definition of weakness would you call them weak. If someone hurt a family member of mine, I would hate him, and only by stretching the definition of weakness would you call me weak for feeling that hatred.

We need to be careful about attributing negative qualities like weakness or ignorance to people who behave in ways that we don't like. An arrogant, powerful, scary, angry guy might be a lot of negative things but weak isn't one of them.

You can define "strength" as having compassion, being forgiving of those that trespass against you, and loving everyone - but that's not what most of us think of as strength and definitely not what the dictionary would say.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj » May 10th, 2014, 3:22 pm

Wilson wrote: No, not always. There are strong people lacking compassion who enjoy dominating others. Only by stretching the definition of weakness would you call them weak. If someone hurt a family member of mine, I would hate him, and only by stretching the definition of weakness would you call me weak for feeling that hatred.

We need to be careful about attributing negative qualities like weakness or ignorance to people who behave in ways that we don't like. An arrogant, powerful, scary, angry guy might be a lot of negative things but weak isn't one of them.

You can define "strength" as having compassion, being forgiving of those that trespass against you, and loving everyone - but that's not what most of us think of as strength and definitely not what the dictionary would say.
The weakness is associated to having to resort to domineering others to earn a living.
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Belinda » May 11th, 2014, 5:52 am

Bermudj, I was not sarcastic but sincere. You do have good ideas but often fail to develop them well.

-- Updated Sun May 11, 2014 5:00 am to add the following --
Wilson wrote:
Scott wrote:Do you think that anger, discompassion and hatred are usually symptoms of weakness? Why or why not?
No, not always. There are strong people lacking compassion who enjoy dominating others. Only by stretching the definition of weakness would you call them weak. If someone hurt a family member of mine, I would hate him, and only by stretching the definition of weakness would you call me weak for feeling that hatred.

We need to be careful about attributing negative qualities like weakness or ignorance to people who behave in ways that we don't like. An arrogant, powerful, scary, angry guy might be a lot of negative things but weak isn't one of them.

You can define "strength" as having compassion, being forgiving of those that trespass against you, and loving everyone - but that's not what most of us think of as strength and definitely not what the dictionary would say.
If someone hurt my dearest I would be angry and want to retaliate possibly with violence. If I meet this situation with the most strength I would have genuinely felt the strength of this emotion and also brought reason to bear upon the emotion so as to get the result I most want.

If someone hurts my dearest and I don't even begin to feel anger I would be constitutionally weak. To be strong I need to feel emotions and be able to turn them into conceptualised feelings upon which I can bring to bear all the reason possible for me. I may fail to act legally or even morally but if I meet psychological challenges with physical emotions and reasoned psyche I will be as strong as is possible to me.

We need to stretch the popular definitions of strength and weakness, because analysing and defining is what philosophers try to do. When a person does not think and try to think harder than before this person is trying to escape from reality.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj » May 11th, 2014, 6:17 am

Belinda wrote:Bermudj, I was not sarcastic but sincere. You do have good ideas but often fail to develop them well.
Dear Belinda, you are attempting to read too much between the lines, I have not accused you of being sarcastic.

I was just pointing out that fighting can be done both physically and with words and sometimes words cause even more damage.

As to your point that I do not develop the ideas well, I take that on board and I will try and work at strengthening my "middle game."
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Mistery » May 11th, 2014, 12:56 pm

Words can never cause more damage. It's just easier to get away with it in a society. If you say something like that you never experienced real physical pain. Would you rather get depression because someone claimed that you are useless or because someone has cut your arms and you became useless?

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj » May 11th, 2014, 1:17 pm

Mistery wrote:Words can never cause more damage. It's just easier to get away with it in a society. If you say something like that you never experienced real physical pain. Would you rather get depression because someone claimed that you are useless or because someone has cut your arms and you became useless?
Luckily I have not suffered the severe pain that can come about from your arm being chopped. I have no idea how painful this could be. Like most physical pains there will be a sudden pain, then numbness and then very serious pain.

Maybe we should ask people who have been tortured and which one causes them more pain a verbal one or a physical one. Which one is the one which makes them spill the beans?

As far as experiencing pain, I was tortured by a sadistic person twice, one lasted just over a month, the other more severe was when I was confined to a room for 3 months and took on a lot of verbal pain there. The mental scars of this lasted many years and I had nightmares associated with this three years after. When it comes to physical pain, I have been twice in the operating theatre, I have lost 10kg in a year once, 15 kg in year on another occasion, then 30 kg in a year and also I have done the 40kg in a year through sheer physical work.
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Mistery » May 11th, 2014, 1:33 pm

confined to a room for 3 months is physical violence. pure verbal violence is not as bad as pure physical. Basically I assume they used physical violence to make you emotionally vulnerable to verbal violence.

wtf have you been doing?

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj » May 11th, 2014, 1:45 pm

Mistery wrote: wtf have you been doing?
I worked as university lecturer, senior lecturer at University of Westminster, I have trained people on the C language for an International IT Training company, they are called QA Training, I developed a very successful C/C++ program which sold over 1,000 copies and run over 8 years, I had a furniture business, importing furniture from Colombia to Venezuela and retailing in Venezuela, that venture failed, briefly I had a restaurant, I worked in a farm, milking cows, shoeing horses, growing crops for about 5 years and currently I am unemployed after being made redundant at University of Westminster. Nevertheless I do so part time tutoring work teaching teenagers on GCSE maths.

Going back to the issue of pain, I would like to obtain the opinion of those who have been tortured for the purposes of obtaining information from them and find from them which pain is more unbearable.
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Mistery » May 11th, 2014, 1:52 pm

If you are tortured by professionals then they will use both physical and verbal violence. The combination is more painfull than pure physical but pure verbal will never be as painfull as pure physical.

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