Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness?

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Mysterio448
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Mysterio448 »

I believe that in a perfect world, emotion is a burden, and in a world of pure chaos, logic is a burden. The world in which we live is a mix of order and disorder, therefore I think that we need to have a balance of logic and emotion.

To represent the relationship between logic and emotion, I like to use an analogy of a human police officer and a canine officer. These two officers sometimes work together as partners. There are many things the canine officer can do that the human officer cannot, and vice versa. This is not to say that the two officers are equals; the human officer must, at all times, be in control of the canine officer. If the human officer were to merely restrain the dog, it would be unable to provide many necessary services. I believe that anger and hatred are not bad in and of themselves; they serve a purpose, and one should take care to control rather than merely restrain them. I think that in the majority of cases in which people's anger and hatred have overflowed into violence, these individuals did not understand the distinction between controlling their emotions and restraining them. Restraining emotion is a lost cause. Emotion is like energy; it cannot simply be annihilated, rather it can only be converted from one form to another. People should focus on channeling their strong emotions in intelligent, logical ways.

...

Furthermore, I will give another analogy. A turtle's shell sometimes proves a burden to a turtle. There are times when a turtle happens to get flipped over onto its back and the shell balances itself like a bowl, leaving the turtle helpless. In this state, the turtle may never be able to turn itself back onto its feet and may eventually starve to death. Does this mean that the turtle's shell is a purely counterproductive appendage that should be removed? No, because the shell also provides a crucial means of protecting the slow-moving animal. Anger and hatred are something like a turtle's shell. They are parts of our nature that undoubtedly prove problematic at times, but one should not, as it were, throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Last edited by Mysterio448 on May 31st, 2013, 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Theophane »

Interesting thoughts, Mysterio448. :)

What kind of perfect world would a Vulcan yearn for?
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Bermudj
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj »

Scott wrote:Do you think that anger, discompassion and hatred are usually symptoms of weakness? Why or why not?
I agree because the emotion of anger weakens the body. The emotion of anger feeds into the body, turning into hate and further weakening the individual. The weaker he/she is the more he has to use violent techniques to achieve what he/she wants.

-- Updated May 4th, 2014, 4:01 pm to add the following --
Mysterio448 wrote:I believe that in a perfect world, emotion is a burden, and in a world of pure chaos, logic is a burden. The world in which we live is a mix of order and disorder, therefore I think that we need to have a balance of logic and emotion.
You use the emotion of the heart to propel yourself forward and the emotion of anger to defend what you have earned.
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

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Belinda
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Belinda »

Bermudj, although I agree with you on the effect on the body of anger, it is more useful to know the cause of your anger. When you know the cause of your anger your are more able to control your anger. The cause of your anger, as is the cause of everyones' anger, is fear and insecurity.

To protect against fear and insecurity there is the all-knowingness of God, whatever you understand God to be.
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Bermudj
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

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Belinda wrote:Bermudj, although I agree with you on the effect on the body of anger, it is more useful to know the cause of your anger. When you know the cause of your anger your are more able to control your anger. The cause of your anger, as is the cause of everyones' anger, is fear and insecurity.

To protect against fear and insecurity there is the all-knowingness of God, whatever you understand God to be.
Dear Belinda,

Do you believe in God? all along the various posts I thought you were more of an atheist. Any way that is by the side.

Yes I agree that you want to identify the source of your anger and I would start by removing that, as if the source is still there the anger will carry on growing on you. And I also agree that fear and insecurity are major causes of anger. In my experience what I have found is that many do not have the courage to face that fear and extract it from themselves so as to achieve the security the body yearns for.
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Belinda »

Bermudj, I often call myself an atheist because I don't believe in the god who is a great big sort of all-powerful supernatural person. I do trust that emotionally- based forgiveness and understanding can be achieved by human beings. I believe that whatever God is or is not, 'he' is more than human passions of fear or love.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj »

Belinda wrote:Bermudj, I often call myself an atheist because I don't believe in the god who is a great big sort of all-powerful supernatural person. I do trust that emotionally- based forgiveness and understanding can be achieved by human beings. I believe that whatever God is or is not, 'he' is more than human passions of fear or love.
I am bit lost as to your concept of God.
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Belinda »

Bermudj wrote:
Belinda wrote:Bermudj, I often call myself an atheist because I don't believe in the god who is a great big sort of all-powerful supernatural person. I do trust that emotionally- based forgiveness and understanding can be achieved by human beings. I believe that whatever God is or is not, 'he' is more than human passions of fear or love.
I am bit lost as to your concept of God.
Bermudj, I have no 'concept', of God, except when I allow myself a flight of fancy. If I believe anything about God, I believe that it is impossible to conceptualise 'him'. I am a pantheist therefore I do believe that God is the same as existence itself whatever that be.

Intellectually, therefore, forgiveness and understanding of oneself and others is possible. Emotional forgiveness is a matter of who one feels oneself to be and is not intellectual but a feeling. Fear and insecurity are incompatible with emotional forgiveness of oneself and others.
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Bermudj
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj »

Belinda wrote: Intellectually, therefore, forgiveness and understanding of oneself ....
And what does forgiveness of oneself mean? Do I forgive myself for having used my Mum's pension money so that I could have sex with prostitutes?
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Logic_ill »

no they are symptoms of human or our definition of human
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Bermudj
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj »

Logic_ill wrote:no they are symptoms of human or our definition of human
do dogs share these with us?
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Theophane »

Yes, they do, but needless to say canine psychology is significantly different from ours.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Belinda »

Bermudj wrote:
And what does forgiveness of oneself mean? Do I forgive myself for having used my Mum's pension money so that I could have sex with prostitutes?
Yes. I would forgive my children for that. I would want to hit them if they did so but I would forgive them, while locking away my valuables and even not allowing them to enter my house, but I would forgive them. I would say that I hate what they did, but I would still forgive them even if I had to relinquish all hope that they could do better. Once you understand the suffering you caused and don't cause the suffering any more you can eventually forgive yourself for being an idiot.
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Bermudj
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Bermudj »

Belinda wrote: Yes. I would forgive my children for that. I would want to hit them if they did so but I would forgive them, while locking away my valuables and even not allowing them to enter my house, but I would forgive them. I would say that I hate what they did, but I would still forgive them even if I had to relinquish all hope that they could do better. Once you understand the suffering you caused and don't cause the suffering any more you can eventually forgive yourself for being an idiot.
There is some inconsistency in your discourse. Why do you call the person an idiot, nevertheless you are preaching forgiveness to others?

But the real point in the forgiveness issue is that the person must stop causing the suffering before he can forgive himself? This is a tall order to demand of such person.
Do whatever you do, do what a good man would do, and what is a good man?, I do not know, but at every point, every turn, do what a good man would do.

Jesús Antonio Bermúdez-Silva
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Belinda »

Bermudj wrote:
There is some inconsistency in your discourse. Why do you call the person an idiot, nevertheless you are preaching forgiveness to others?
Preaching forgiveness is like saying "you ought to forgive". I was not saying this. I was trying to describe forgiveness and please try to understand that it's not easy to describe a feeling. Forgiveness is a feeling much more than it is an ethic.

I called you an idiot for doing what you confessed to doing. We are all idiots in our various ways . Idiocy is the human condition. I confess that I too am an idiot and expect to remain stupid although I keep trying to get better.
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