Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness?

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Sir Pencilot
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Sir Pencilot »

This thread is very insightful. Thanks to all who've posted.

I'm of the view that "weakness" is too subjective a term for the question to have an answer any two people could agree on. I consider anger, discompassion (cruelty? indifference?), and hatred to each be an emotion, a motivator, and (in the case of anger and hatred) survival tools. I suggest that a more objective question is, "are they useful?" To which the answer of course is yes, as in the example of the cornered animal. The morality of that use, naturally, should be judged based on the use they're put to and the actions they motivate.

Could we live without them? Certainly, in an environment free of threats. There's a worthy goal for humanity.

(This is my first post. I found the site whilst searching for a word describing someone who acts with reason but not compassion. I don't think such a word exists, and I suspect that's because those two concepts are too synonymous to ever be completely divorced. A different thread, I'm sure.)

-- Updated July 13th, 2012, 7:11 am to add the following --

This thread is very insightful. Thanks to all who've posted.

I'm of the view that "weakness" is too subjective a term for the question to have an answer any two people could agree on. I consider anger, discompassion (cruelty? indifference?), and hatred to each be an emotion, a motivator, and (in the case of anger and hatred) survival tools. I suggest that a more objective question is, "are they useful?" To which the answer of course is yes, as in the example of the cornered animal. The morality of that use, naturally, should be judged based on the use they're put to and the actions they motivate.

Could we live without them? Certainly, in an environment free of threats. There's a worthy goal for humanity.

(This is my first post. I found the site whilst searching for a word describing someone who acts with reason but not compassion. I don't think such a word exists, and I suspect that's because those two concepts are too synonymous to ever be completely divorced. A different thread, I'm sure.)
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Grecorivera5150
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Grecorivera5150 »

Their are those who are hateful , lack compassion and who are angry who seam outwardly serene. What keeps those who are driven by these emotions and can remain calm is their intelligence and their ability to manipulate human systems and interactions to methodically release or implement action based on their motivations incrementally in such a way as to gain esteem from their actions without exposing themselves.

I don't see this dynamic and powerful emotions that are acted upon either overtly or covertly by individuals so much as a sign of weakness in the individuals but as a necessary response for them situations that have created their discontent. Often those who are driven in such a manner are often emotionally scarred in some way from some type of abuse and a lack of nurturing interactions. So I would see these individual behaviors more as an overall weakness of social systems to provide a requisite amount of esteem to many of its members.
Gamnot
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Gamnot »

I believe there are a constellation of factors involved in "Anger, dis compassion, and Hatred." One perspective is to use Cattail's Q2 personality factor which is the group adherence and self-sufficiency dimension. At some point on the continuum, group adherence becomes engulfing and cultic. It is probably weakness or impoverishment in some way that causes overly strong group adherence. Being part of an in- group gives the feeling of security and strength that a person with more integrity and self-sufficiency would not need.

Moral weakness means the lack of integrity to withstand the person's circumstances. Quote: "I am myself and my circumstances." Jose Ortega Y Gasset The morally weak or impoverished person would tend to be engulfed by or torn apart by his or her circumstances. Moral strength means having the integrity to withstand adverse or unhealthy circumstances.

The same kind of idea is given by Paul Tillich's Ontological polarity: "Individualization -- Participation."

it is good and healthy to be able to become individualized or to become a balanced person without the downside of estrangement and on the other side of the coin to have inter-personal and social participation without engulfment or being caught up in the drift of social and cultural movements that you do not understand. Being caught up in ideas and movements that you do not understand or fully understand is detrimental to the person and everyone else in the person's circumstances.
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Altruist
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Altruist »

Very lovely. Everyone has his or her own viewpoint over the understanding if whether hatred is a weakness or not.

In my point of view, I like to first read it objectively over the ethical reasons behind them.

It can be both understandable to see why a person would act angry, depending on what we know of the person. Naturally, anger distorts the perspective. It intermingles what one knows and how one feels. The values and pursuits to experience a comfortable end may require a trail of distortion (anger, hatred, biased behavior). Not all the time will these means to this end will result into their favor, and depending on how important it is to them will depend how steep they will go to achieve it.

This is why poverty living show signs to have more crime rates than living in the suburbs. A human mind has the natural tendency to seek a solution. When in a struggle, such as having no money or the legal know-hows to support its family, it goes for alternatives. The mind will do so much to achieve a good result. In any situation involving hatred, aggression, or argument, have you ever had that feeling of seeking an ending result to be in your favor?

When those boys went around shooting people in their school, it would be understandable to believe that predetermining to shoot people in their school would create an ending satisfaction. Whether it was to kill others to feel better, or shooting themselves (maybe shooting all those people did not complete their satisfaction to feeling better, and as a result killed themselves to not bear the pain?). The purpose of it all was seeking after something good inside, seeking to feel better. Performing an act considered hateful or negative is only their way of hoping to reach after a good feeling in the end, but they must learn that these actions are only distortions and not a correct trail to seek for a solution.

Anger (in action) is simply an emotional route seeking for a better emotion in the end. Anger (in thought only) is only a thought (a chemical churn), but can become of something once they finally conjure the thoughts into an action.

Is it a weakness?

If you ask me, every single human being has his or her own flaw. A weakness to what the society expects for him or her not to do? Yes, for it is the society that grants that answer. But for me, subjectively? In my own opinion? I cannot answer that question.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Gamnot »

I believe that it would be helpful with this topic and many of the other topics as well to use Gabriel Marcel's notion of distinguishing between: Problems and Mysteries. A problem is something that we can look at from outside of the box, so to speak, but a mystery is something we cannot look at objectively because we participate in it. Marcel talked about three things in particular as being mysteries and not problems: Love, Evil, The Family. But even though a mystery cannot be clearly defined, that does not mean that it cannot be grasped in some way. People who tend to be like-minded have ideas that come together like gears and that enable them to operate harmoniously.

The upshot is that things that should be considered to be problems should not be treated as mysteries and things that should be considered to be mysteries should not be treated as if they are problems. But this is not to say that everyone is right about anything they believe.

I would think that bureaucratic mindedness is a source of dis-compassion because bureaucrats have the tendency to become focused on the means to achieve a particular end and lose interest in the end itself. This occurs irregardless of whether the end is malignant as it was in the Nazi culture or beneficial as it appears to be in our modern society. This statement is not the final word on "Anger, Dis-compassion, and Hatred" but I believe that it adds to an understanding of the topic.



"Man knows more than he understands"
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Pregunta
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Pregunta »

I will keep this short. Anger is a strong feeling of annoyance, displeasure or hostility. It is human nature to have emotion, to feel angry. But once we begin to hurt others because one acts out in rage, then it is a symptom of weakness. This is because it shows that one was unable to control ones feelings, and thus has lead to a dis constructive action. One would think that they do not want to hurt others, thus if they release anger on another they must be demonstrating a weakness of lack of self control.
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Rhodes12
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Rhodes12 »

I agree with most of the peoples over here. Compassion is a sure shot sign of weakness in peoples. Weakness can be defined as an insecure feeling, not able to do something. Anger cannot be described as a weakness because it can be good sometimes to get motivated to do something that makes them angry.
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DeeElf
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by DeeElf »

Scott wrote:Do you think that anger, discompassion and hatred are usually symptoms of weakness? Why or why not?
Absolutely. I agree with the Buddha about these things. I suppose most wouldn't call that a very good philosophical reason, but it's the basis of my conviction.
Scott wrote:If you know of any psychological studies into the matter, please post here about them.
Please don't think I'm bragging, but I've a bachelor's degree in psychology and a master's degree in conflict resolution, and I know of hundreds. As I work my way through this thread, I'll try to reference them.
Scott wrote:Generally speaking, I think that anger, discompassion and hatred are signs of weakness and/or the self-perception of weakness....
I take it further. Hatred (and probably anger) is a root cause of moral weakness. By moral I mean virtue. And by virtue I mean, at minimum, approximating to the best of one's abilities, the following: refraining from killing, refraining from taking that which is not given, refraining from sexual misconduct (rape, child molestation, infidelity), refraining from lying and/or dishonesty, and refraining from using drugs or alcohol in a careless way.
Scott wrote:[W]ouldn't you say that compassion is generally a sign of strength and clearheadedness? I would. Martin Luther King Jr. is one of the strongest historical figures I can think of, and I believe he is a great example of how genuine strength enables a person to act on their love and to influence society without resorting to the destructive use of offensive violence and judgmental vengeance associated with anger, discompassion and hatred? What do you think?
I think this is a good example. He's also a good example of the adage that compassion without wisdom is just pity.

-- Updated August 23rd, 2012, 3:55 am to add the following --
Belinda wrote:...everyone has a Buddha nature...
The Buddha himself didn't teach the Buddha Nature Doctrine.

-- Updated August 23rd, 2012, 4:20 am to add the following --
Scott wrote:I generally understand that as a rule of thumb when a person calls an action or person 'immoral' it is in some way a vague form of criticism.
Aspiring to live up to an ethical code is a personal matter. When I use the terms "moral", "virtue", etc..., the principle referent is my own behavior. We all notice things in others we consider immoral, or beneath them; but the wise person looks for the same in herself first and generally keeps their mouth shut.

But hate is much more than an ethical problem. It's fundamental to our psychology.

-- Updated August 23rd, 2012, 4:31 am to add the following --
Scott wrote:This weakness would be closely related to desperation, feeling trapped and political/social powerlessness.
I think you're on the right track with this.

-- Updated August 23rd, 2012, 4:37 am to add the following --
wanabe wrote:JacobAWyatt,



Greed can come from an insecurity, I can agree to that. Greed could from the desire to flaunt things just to make people jealous, not because the greedy person is insecure, but because they like to make others insecure.

In any case you and I both seem to agree that anger, discompassion and hatred are symptoms only of moral weakness. Not physical or mental weakness.

Point is, these things are not always a defense mechanism, some people are just more morally bad than good most of the time because that's how they get ahead in life, or thats how they enjoy life.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We can only cure a angry, discompassionate and hateful person (aka the morally weak) if they want to be cured. We can't do much with the information in this thread.
At its most psychological core, greed comes from not getting what you want or trying to keep what you have.

NOTE: I didn't reference any psychological studies but I will if folks are interested. You also might try Googling, "Psychology of Conflict Resolution" for starters.

-- Updated August 24th, 2012, 10:41 pm to add the following --
Scott wrote:If you know of any psychological studies into the matter, please post here about them.
Highlights from the Psychology of Conflict Resolution field:

"Aggression and Violence" by Opotow, S. in The Handbook of Conflict Resolution: Theory and Practice

"Anger and Retaliation in Conflict" by Allred, K. in The Handbook of Conflict Resolution: Theory and Practice

"Biological Roots: Are Humans Inherently Violent?" by Berkowitz, L. in Psychological Dimensions of War Preview

The Natural History of Peace: The Positive View of Human Nature and Its Potential

The Need to Have Enemies and Allies by Volkan, V. (1988). Especially Chs.: "Precursors of the Concepts...", & "Crystallization of the Concepts...."

"On Dehumanizing the Enemy" by Moses, R. in The Psychodynamics of International Relationships: Concepts and Theories

Peace, Conflict, and Violence: Peace Psychology for the 21st Century Preview
*This book is full research and studies summaries by top scholars in the field like: Naomi Abrahms, Ervin Staub, Susan Opotow, Johan Galtung, Morton Deutsch, Daniel J. Christie, and Richard V. Wagner.

Peacemaking Among Primates by De Waal, F. (Especially pp. 9-33 & 229-271) The Psychology of Peacemaking

Why Aggressors Lose by White, R. (1990) in Political Psychology, (11) 2, 227-242
"Arguments seldom make converts in matters philosophical." -W. James, Principles, Vol. 1, p. 468

"Argument is propaganda for one observer, the essence of human discourse for another." -Feyerabend, Against Method, p. 236 (2010)
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by 3uGH7D4MLj »

Scott wrote:Do you think that anger, discompassion and hatred are usually symptoms of weakness? Why or why not? What do you think?
I agree in general with your topic statement. There are different kinds of weakness though.

Your use of 'usually' lets me sign on to your idea. The 'usually' lets me reserve some anger which may give me the power to do a good and strong thing someday. I may need anger and violence. I can visualize needing them and I hope I can perform with sufficient viciousness when the time comes.

But in general, yes I agree.
fair to say
Namthebabe
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Namthebabe »

Hatred, discompassion and anger are all normal. It's PC to say that hatred is "wrong".

No emotion can be "wrong" by definition. Only actions based on such feelings can be deemed "wrong".
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Gulnara
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Gulnara »

Most powerful leaders in a world certainly possessed such traits like being angry, hating and being discompassionate. Those expressions of emotion are not sign of the weakness.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Namthebabe »

Pregunta wrote:I will keep this short. Anger is a strong feeling of annoyance, displeasure or hostility. It is human nature to have emotion, to feel angry. But once we begin to hurt others because one acts out in rage, then it is a symptom of weakness. This is because it shows that one was unable to control ones feelings, and thus has lead to a dis constructive action. One would think that they do not want to hurt others, thus if they release anger on another they must be demonstrating a weakness of lack of self control.
Who says it's "wrong" to hurt others?

-- Updated April 11th, 2013, 4:44 pm to add the following --
Scott wrote:Do you think that anger, discompassion and hatred are usually symptoms of weakness? Why or why not?

If you know of any psychological studies into the matter, please post here about them.

Generally speaking, I think that anger, discompassion and hatred are signs of weakness and/or the self-perception of weakness.

Namely, I think people get frustrated by their own weakness, which makes them angry, discompassionate, and hateful and makes them more likely to resort to violence and other primitive and brutish techniques (not as a form of defense but as a means of offensive attack and control). When a person is socially weak, I believe the person will likely compensate by using the brutish techniques associated with anger, discompassion, and hatred.

Additionally, people who believe themselves to be weak will tend to have an inferiority complex, which is notorious for often resulting in excessive aggressiveness as a form of overcompensation, such as in the clichéd case of most schoolyard bullies.

In another example, consider the crazy "school shooters" who go to schools to shoot wildly at their classmates and usually kill themselves. Wouldn't you say that that extreme example of vengeful anger, discompassion, and hatred is a sign of severe weakness and the pathological self-perception of weakness.

In another example, if you back an animal into a corner, making it feel scared and weak, it will lash out violently and erratically, which in humans would be called anger, discompassion, or hatred.

In contrast, wouldn't you say that compassion is generally a sign of strength and clearheadedness? I would. Martin Luther King Jr. is one of the strongest historical figures I can think of, and I believe he is a great example of how genuine strength enables a person to act on their love and to influence society without resorting to the destructive use of offensive violence and judgmental vengeance associated with anger, discompassion and hatred?

What do you think?
I disagree. Anger, hatred and discompassion are normal.
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Wuliheron
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Wuliheron »

Anger is part of the fight-or-flight response of any complex animal. For the most part it is located in the primitive "reptilian" brain and, in general, the more brain damage an individual receives the more vicious they become. Recently studies have revealed men living on the streets are 400 times more likely to suffer from a serious head trauma and virtually all hardened criminals have brain damage. Any suggestion anger is merely a reflection of character weakness is about as scientific as the tooth fairy.

However, I would suggest that a distinct lack of humor is characteristic of the brain damage associated with anger and cultural taboos.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Logic_ill »

I understand what you mean Scott. I would add another element: ignorance. We (human beings) come into this world without much of a clue of "reality". We, therefore, rely on others for our understanding of life in general. If our environments do not provide us with the "necessary" or "correct" information of how lives should be led, then we may become destructive. It doesn't mean that there are no cases of individuals that come from disfunctional backgrounds who manage to break free from their indoctrination or understand the basis of good living, but they are the few.

Hey, thanks for the ad hominen warning, the other day ;)
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Theophane »

Do you think that anger, discompassion and hatred are usually symptoms of weakness? Why or why not?
In the philosophical world of Star Wars, anger, discompassion and hatred are sources of hideous strength. For the one who would align himself with the Dark Side, these emotions can make him unthinkably powerful. In our world, those who use and feed off dark-sided emotions as a means of seizing power are quick to rise. Anger, discompassion, and hatred are weapons of mass destruction. Anger begets anger. Discompassion and hatred multiply like a cancer.
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