Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness?

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Belinda
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Belinda » August 4th, 2015, 7:57 am

Whitedragon wrote:
someone with a regrettable and sad history of abuse or suffering will be more likely to draw upon their “wild” instincts. However genes also play a part, psychopaths have “missing-genes” that make them more aggressive. So no, it is not a one size fits all, though I find great merit in your argument none the less.
Scott's thesis about the nature of weakness depends upon what we are going to call "strength". Genghis Khan was strong and also angry, if anger shows itself as violence, discompassionate ,and if hating also manifests in violence, he hated.

We can define strength and weakness by comparing behaviours with the criterion of survival against some material force of destruction such as weapons or floods. Or we can define strength and weakness by comparing behaviours with the criterion of survival against less material threats such as slander, grief, or loss.

Which sort of emotional response then is the most favourable in which case? And favourable to whom?
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Whitedragon » August 4th, 2015, 8:31 am

Belinda said: Which sort of emotional response then is the most favourable in which case? And favourable to whom?

Favourable emotion can only be attained in certain states of mind in certain individuals. People are driven by various forces; the mind consists of different parts and can manifest in different states: some can be controlled, and some cannot. Therefore it should be taken into account what people’s minds are put through and how their environment and genetics contribute to their state. I’m sure courts take this into consideration.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Christelle » January 9th, 2016, 4:53 am

Yes and yes.
It is definitely a sign of weakness

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Boots » February 25th, 2016, 10:09 am

Anger is an emotion that is evolutionarily wired into all of us. It has a purpose and without it we would not survive as a species.

Compassion comes from our ability to empathize. How compassionate a person is will hinge on how much empathy they are able to feel.

Hatred is just extreme dislike. We have to like and dislike in order to discriminate and make decisions. I think dislike turns to hate when we start assigning blame to the hated person. They become the focus of all of the blame, which is impossible since no one person or group can be blamed for everything. Now the person is the enemy and we can dehumanize them and allow ourselves to treat them inhumanely. I'm not sure I would call this weakness, but it is definitely a recipe for war, genocide, stereotyping, slavery, scapegoating and so on.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Fitzgerald » May 11th, 2016, 4:08 pm

Jestr wrote:In the absence of some sort of psychological patholgy I am well unequipt to figure out, anger, lack of compassion and hatred would seem to stem from a feeling the one is not being understood by those whom one respects. In the presence of a pathology, I imagine it would be more about a twisted Hierachy of Needs pyramid thing. Maslow and that...
Anger, in my opinion, does not always stem from being misunderstood. Anger is a reaction out of fear, embarrassment, jealously, or a plethora of other emotions. Being a vital part of the human condition, it has been developed to assist us in certain situations. There are reasons for anger that assist weakness, but reasons that assist strength. Would you not say that anger at someone attempting to hurt your spouse or child is a natural reaction of protection and strength? Or would you consider this weakness as it is not benefiting the individual themselves.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Raspberry_Yoghurt » May 27th, 2016, 9:46 pm

Anger is a symptom of weakness. People get angry when they are not on top of the situation, for instance if they get surprised, or if they are unsure how to handle a situation.

Note that there is agression aplenty committed in cold blood, with no anger involved. Snipers for instance aren't angry, they are just doing their job, and being angry just makes them less efficient, not more.

Hatred - it depends what you mean with weakness. Hating genocide or murder or cannbalism or slave traders is a sound reaction, I would consider it unhealthy not to hate those things. But yes, in a way it does expres weakness, since we hate the things we think we can never get entirely rid of. We do not hate problems anymore once they are handled and we are in a position of power towards them.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Belinda » July 16th, 2016, 5:20 am

Raspberry_Yoghurt wrote:
Anger is a symptom of weakness. People get angry when they are not on top of the situation, for instance if they get surprised, or if they are unsure how to handle a situation.
That's interesting and hopeful because an implication is that the anger dissipates once the situation is under control.

Another interesting implication is that weakness is specific to situations, which in its turn implies that social reality vis a vis weakness and strength limits the potential powers of the individual.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Greta » July 16th, 2016, 6:04 pm

Yes to the OP. They are signs of immaturity.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by LuckyR » July 17th, 2016, 2:52 pm

It varies: hatred as above is in fact a symptom of weakness for the reasons stated. Dis-compassion, however is a trait, not an emotion. Either you have compassion (or dis-compassion) or you don't thus it is NOT a symptom of weakness. Hatred is a general term with different meaning to different folks. It can stem from weakness but it can also be a preference, which is an opinion, not a symptom of weakness.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Greta » July 17th, 2016, 6:48 pm

LuckyR wrote:Either you have compassion (or dis-compassion) or you don't thus it is NOT a symptom of weakness. Hatred is a general term with different meaning to different folks. It can stem from weakness but it can also be a preference, which is an opinion, not a symptom of weakness.
Practically, yes, otherwise no. All of the world's cultures are morally developing. Not long ago we were cannibalising, enslaving, invading, raping and torturing far more than we do today.

It's ironic that, while our moralities become ever more refined, it seems that almost all commentary on morality online is about a so-called "decline". Given the scope and nature of humanity's (savage) ancestry, it takes extraordinary short-sightedness to base judgements on humanity's moral movements on just a few decades without considering the longer term past and future.

This temporal myopia appears to afflict almost everyone, as it afflicted me before I retired and actually started paying attention.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated—Gandhi.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Ormond » July 17th, 2016, 7:43 pm

Greta wrote:It's ironic that, while our moralities become ever more refined, it seems that almost all commentary on morality online is about a so-called "decline".
I take your points about the larger long term picture, but there is something going on in recent decades which shouldn't be casually dismissed. As just one example, we didn't have mass shootings every week when I was a kid. The first one might have happened in the Texas university tower shooting in the sixties, and it was truly shocking at that time. Now it's just normal routine everyday news.

It's a complicated picture because in some areas we really are doing much better, gay rights for instance.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Belinda » July 18th, 2016, 3:58 am

Greta wrote:
Practically, yes, otherwise no. All of the world's cultures are morally developing. Not long ago we were cannibalising, enslaving, invading, raping and torturing far more than we do today.
Regarding Ormond's comment on Greta's post , did Ormond imply that a more complacent people is a better people, and that violent rebellion is immoral? I ask, because of what Ormond chose to comment on and what he chose to omit, based upon Greta's post.

Like Ormond, I have a comment to make on the above from Greta. My point is general and not about violent rebellion from minorities. One, is it possible to quantify the evils that Greta names so as to compare thge past with the present? Two, let's not be optimistic because evil does not rest and things can get worse not better In view of the impending ecological collapse for instance all manner of human relations might become more violent.

-- Updated Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:14 am to add the following --
Belinda wrote:Greta wrote:
Practically, yes, otherwise no. All of the world's cultures are morally developing. Not long ago we were cannibalising, enslaving, invading, raping and torturing far more than we do today.
Regarding Ormond's comment on Greta's post , did Ormond imply that a more complacent people is a better people, and that violent rebellion is immoral? I ask, because of what Ormond chose to comment on and what he chose to omit, based upon Greta's post.

Like Ormond, I have a comment to make on the above from Greta. My point however is general and not about violent rebellions from minorities or single individuals. One, is it possible to quantify the evils that Greta names so as to compare the past with the present? Two, let's not be optimistic because evil does not rest and things can get worse not better In view of the impending ecological collapse for instance all manner of human relations might become more violent.
Without any researching I can name two positive moral developments. One is that although Sunni Muslims are too reticent in condemning Islamic extremism, Muslim Amadiyyas are generally held in wide and popular respect, liking and support in the West and their very lives are testament against Islamic extremism. Another positive moral advance is the power of mass communication so that total good is seen to outweigh total evil at grass root level.

With reference to Ormond's point about illegal shootings the causes and effects of those are widely known and discussed by people such as ourselves and this must be good.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by Greta » July 18th, 2016, 5:15 am

Considering the increasing development of morality in life - not just humans, we are just at the cutting edge - it's only to be expected that the change isn't smoothly linear. I agree that moral development is not consistent, more advanced in some areas, less so in others. Think of it like climate change - the average global temperatures are consistently becoming warmer, but the day-to-day weather can vary considerably. In some locales it will generally become colder before warming, due to the shifting warm and cold currents.

So it goes with morality, but the net effect is that, one billion years on, the chances of being ambushed and killed - or ambushing and killing others - are very much lower. Humanity is gradually becoming more responsive to reason, less swamped by unthinking emotion, more aware. How could we not? Most societies are becoming more aware through experience.

I especially like watching how political games subtly change as certain strategies become too well-known. This process is precisely behind the modern loss of respect of politicians and other formerly revered professionals and authority figures. In recent times there's been a fishion for politicians seeking election to use snappy, three-word slogans after Tony Abbott's "Stop the boats" and "Labor's big new tax" slogans swept him into power in a wave of misogyny generated by Murdoch's News Ltd. Last election, Abbot's successor, Malcolm Turnbull, was widely ridiculed for his "patronising" slogan, "jobs and growth".

The "players" have to keep on thinking up new tricks. Of course, the old tricks are always recycled after going off the radar for a while, but it's never quite the same.

The loss of the Catholic church's status in the face of child abuse scandals is another example. No so long in historical terms molestation was considered par for the course, and not just in the church. Meanwhile, sexual slavery of children in developing countries is on the rise.

Belinda, as you know, I don't believe in evil. I have no doubt that there will be declines. While the variances of weather last for only a matter of days, the dips and rises in morality can last for decades. These are terribly significant in terms of one's lifetime but I do not think humanity as a whole can easily "fall into evil" in the long term because societies filled with non-cooperative people cannot successfully compete with more cohesive and cooperative groups.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated—Gandhi.

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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by LuckyR » July 20th, 2016, 1:17 pm

Greta, I agree with your observations but differ a little on the analysis. To my mind the idea that there is long term improvement and short term "noise" that can temporarily go against the prevailing wind does explain what we see but in this particular case the counter trend is not noise IMO, to a large extent it reflects a sea change in human behavior that is going to be a quasi permanent new force impacting this topic. Namely that the electronic social media is resulting in a new shuffle in the outcome of public interaction. Specifically, areas of previous coalescence are now quite fractured, while simultaneously, areas of previous isolation are shared in ways that were previously unimaginable.
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Re: Are anger, discompassion and hatred symptoms of weakness

Post by ThamiorTheThinker » August 24th, 2016, 5:12 pm

What are your reasons for believing that school shootings can be - in some cases - traced back to severe pathology related to perception of weakness? You claimed it without giving an argument. I'm curious as to why you think that follows.

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