For an atheist, are there any sure reasons to be ethical?
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Re: For an atheist, are there any sure reasons to be ethical
Marcus, in your research have you found any other concepts which are similar to SCT that do not involve a state entity for the enforcement of social standards? If so, how do they stack up, in your opinion, against SCT?
And self promotion is the best kind of promotion. Haha.
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Re: For an atheist, are there any sure reasons to be ethical
Comparing northern Europe with the Middle East, you have an area of mixed atheism - weak theism versus a fundamental monotheism. The monotheist complains about the drinking and women's sluttish [sorry for that term] behaviour, the Westerner will complain about the barbarity of punishments, misogyny, homophobia and cruelty to animals. You also have very different climatic conditions.
More similar, is to compare India with Thailand, one theist, and one atheist. The ethics of these countries is also similar, although I would say that India has a semi-legal form of slavery whereas in Thailand such abuses are carried out clandestinely as slavery is totally illegal. The climate while more diverse in India is generally similar between the two.
Comparing these countries with Vietnam is interesting as Vietnam is largely non-religious. Vietnam in general is more ethical between people, but less ethical to other species. This also seems to vary considerably between North and South, with South Vietnam seeming more like Thailand than like North Vietnam. This again could be climate based.
Finally, studies of ape (chimpanzee I believe) groups, shows, for the same species that some groups are male dominated, and some groups female dominated. The only observed transitions have been from male to female dominated. Female dominated groups have a much more equal standard of behaviour. This would seem to equate with Europe and America which have become more female in the last century, and at least at a personal interaction level fairer and more caring. It is easy to believe that this change is one way, and we will not return without a major upheaval or catastrophe.
It is also easy to worry if one sees any reversal of direction, for example the West's current slide into corporatocracy from the "ideal" world of the nineteen-fifties. It must be remembered though that progress tends to be of the two steps forward, one step back variety. We should still expect this world to become more ethical as naturally as time moves forward.
Based on the above, I suggest that the original question is misleading as it takes us away from the real causes of differences in ethics: local climate and societal progression along an ethical scale.
If you need to find a reason for yourself to be ethical, and assuming you are normally developed, I would say forget religion and just love yourself. This will naturally lead you to be more ethical.
- Jatw
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Re: For an atheist, are there any sure reasons to be ethical
Yet, if all the actions that are currently considered unethical suddenly became ethical, accepted by society at large, we'd descend into chaos. If raping and murdering became commonplace, if robbery became the primary means of trade, if death was an acceptable punishment for disagreement - well, we'd surely descend into anarchy. Through civilization we organize, yet we cannot have civilization without individuals agreeing to be civil. Without civilization, humanity cannot succeed, and will ultimately die out (or evolve significantly) as a whole - and we'd certainly be degraded to the levels of other wild species.
Presumably, you do not want humans to be wild. You want to enjoy the luxuries of modern, civilized life. As an atheist, you must accept that you likely only have one chance at life - you only have one chance at bringing yourself pleasure and you only have once chance at affecting change for both humanity and the world at large. You should also recognize the basic theory of evolution and natural selection. You should do your part, as part of the human species, to make the species more successful. While passing on genetic code may have been key to natural selection and the success of the human race previously, it is now equally important to pass on new technologies and new knowledge in the interest of enhancing the human race for generations to come.
The bottom line is that humans cannot succeed without civilization and organization. Such pursuits are impossible without individuals being willing to cooperate. Cooperation is damaged by (unethically) doing harm to one another in immediately gratifying self interest. Ultimately, one must realize that being ethical simply means doing what's in the best interest of the human race (cooperation with others and respect for others) - and it will ultimately result in your own best interest (as you'll be able to reap the benefits of the cooperation of all of society).
- Deeper13
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Re: For an atheist, are there any sure reasons to be ethical
- TheCalvinistPastor
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Re: For an atheist, are there any sure reasons to be ethical
http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pa105.htm
- wanabe
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Re: For an atheist, are there any sure reasons to be ethical
It's popular to view ethics from a religious standpoint, but the argument for ethics is logical, not religious in origin. In antiquity it was primarily the spiritual leaders and institutions which had the education(governments were much smaller), which facilitated logical or at least reasoned thought.
- Dumbo
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Re: For an atheist, are there any sure reasons to be ethical
If you really need to have the threat of punishment in order to stay ethical, that's probably as good a reason as "the devil's going to get you." They both involve passing up short-term gains for long-term safety.
And then there are other reasons that may be better, like, "I just don't want to be THE KIND OF PERSON that does X."
- Naughtorious
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Re: For an atheist, are there any sure reasons to be ethical
I am moralistically good. I would have gotten away with many things I could have done wrong. I did not do wrong because danger and fear are only factors that play influential roles in our decisions. Decisions alone are planned actions. Planned actions are turned into actions when the act takes in effect. My decisions to not do what is ethically wrong was based entirely off of what wasn't short from choosing vanilla icecream over chocolate icecream.Dumbo wrote:
If you really need to have the threat of punishment in order to stay ethical
Hypothetically there was plenty of vanilla icecream and just enough chocolate ice cream for one person. The person behind me has been waiting in line for the chocolate icecream because they are allergic to vanilla icecream. I wanted the chocolate icecream but I chose the vanilla instead even if I didn't like it as much. It was less consequential for others and there wasn't any consequences for myself other than a small downfall in pleasure from making a choice that wasn't for myself.
- Fiveredapples
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Re: For an atheist, are there any sure reasons to be ethical
If you're going to set the bar as high as 'irrefutable', then why bother thinking at all? Stop all this ethical posturing and go on a murder spree, because I guarantee you there is no irrefutable ethical reason not to.I am an atheist and I can think of no irrefutable reason to be ethical.
It's not distressing; it's silly. You are distressed because you are confused. Your confusion is distressing.This is, of course, a bit distressing.
When it comes to ethics, atheists are no exceptions in any way.What are your thoughts about ethics and atheism?
Yeah, the disfavor of your community. Go chop off your mom's head and see how your father feels about it. Then see what society does to you. At some point, you might even consult yourself: see what you feel about such an act.Is there any proof that suggests humans should act ethically?
You're not ready to tackle reading. Let's start with thinking.And can you recommend any books written by atheists on ethics?
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Re: For an atheist, are there any sure reasons to be ethical
There is no reason to observe any moral law, custom or taboo that cannot be refuted by someone, somewhere, at some time in human history.StillTheLaundry makes the case for ethical relativity .I am an atheist and I can think of no irrefutable reason to be ethical.
If you're going to set the bar as high as 'irrefutable', then why bother thinking at all? Stop all this ethical posturing and go on a murder spree, because I guarantee you there is no irrefutable ethical reason not to.
However I argue that there is one ethic which overarches all relative ethics and that criterion is the life or survival of the species. The life or survival of the species may be interpreted variously as the life or survival of any human group from the nuclear family to the nation or cultural group. It is now known that the biosphere is essential to any human life or survival, therefore the survival of the biosphere is an essential component of the life or survival of the species.
The implication of this argument is that there is one broad culture and its broad ethical set which is the best. This winning culture together with its values is defined by universality, as opposed to tribalism in any of tribalism's variants.
The symptoms of tribalism are racism, sexism, ageism, dogmatism, speciesism, unshaken inequality, and fear of foreigners.
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