Torture

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Steezy Philosoraptor
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Torture

Post by Steezy Philosoraptor »

I believe there are situations in which torture may be permissible, never in a situation where you capture someone and just torture them, or if they have done something wrong, and you torture them, I will admit there may be some crimes that one may commit that could lead others to torture someone else, and I may understand why they would, but never would I say it is the right thing to do.


In a situation where lives are at stake and the only way to get the information to save the lives is to torture the person with the information to save them, I believe that is ok. How about when you have two people involved (terrorist 1 and terrorist 2), two terrorists who know each other and terrorist 1 has the information and terrorist 2 does not, terrorist 1 is not giving it to you, so you grab terrorist 2 and start torturing the him while making terrorist 1 watch, if you believe this will help you obtain the information, is this immoral?


If you disagree, put yourself in a situation where you as a parent (if you do not have kids put yourself in your parents shoes) are getting this information because your child or children are in harm’s way. Most people would understand the parents ambition to do whatever it takes to save their child. If this is ok than you would have to agree with the first scenario, even if it were people you have never met, because you can never determine the importance of someone else’s life, and it would be wrong to not try and save their lives right?
Maidservant
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Re: Torture

Post by Maidservant »

In order to come to a conceptual place in a community of humans where torture can be even entertained as right or good, we would (in my opinion) have had previously to make several terrible missteps (in my understanding) in our moral and world view. To keep it simple, for example, we would be affirming that war is moral in order to even come to a question where torture is moral within that war.

I have 'backed up' several paces in the moral chain in my own thinking and having done that, I do not find any right place any where, where another human being needs to assault another human being and produce pain and damage on their body. The fact that it is happening shows a great weakness and malaise in our humanity. That we can't even talk to each other across nations in order to solve problems. Instead we have to find sharp things.

I'm over it. :cry:
Logic_ill
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Re: Torture

Post by Logic_ill »

Perhaps torture can be justified under certain cases as you mention, but I would find it extremely difficult to be the one applyng the punishment. It literally hurts me to even imagine myself sticking a knife into someone else. I have an unusual fear of sharp weapons. I think that it's because it requires closer contact and it is messier.

I wonder if I could muster up the courage to torture someone for the sake of my child's life. While I am not one to hold on dearly to life myself, I do value that of others, especially if they value it themselves. I suppose if the person is a villian and has caused all the trouble, something has to be done.
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Blauw bloed
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Re: Torture

Post by Blauw bloed »

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/ar ... g_head.jpg

Image
[Louis XVI, decapitated during the French Revolution (1789-1794): he was presented on the eve of the French Revolution with slippers made of human skin, but he did not enjoy them for very long.]

It's obvious, that we are desperate in need of a second Enlightenment to deliver us from this evil. We are like the third estate, the only class that paid taxes.

http://api.ning.com/files/vf4DkD4*4JTvy ... ivdark.jpg

Louis XVI was a dark complexioned man, his great-great grandfather Louis XIV mummy was found to be ‘black as ink.’ Here he holds a declaration against torture, which came too late to save his throne.
Logic_ill
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Re: Torture

Post by Logic_ill »

But the guillotine seems more merciful, wasn't it? If the slippers made out of human skin were extracted from a corpse, at least it's more merciful too. I don't know what to think about a person wanting to wear the thingies I would think he/she just wants to spook others, so that they don't rebel. It's a psychological tactic.

What is all this about black nobility in Europe?! Having fun with it? ;)
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Blauw bloed
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Re: Torture

Post by Blauw bloed »

Logic_ill wrote:But the guillotine seems more merciful, wasn't it? If the slippers made out of human skin were extracted from a corpse, at least it's more merciful too. I don't know what to think about a person wanting to wear the thingies I would think he/she just wants to spook others, so that they don't rebel. It's a psychological tactic.

What is all this about black nobility in Europe?! Having fun with it? ;)

What the hell are you babbling about? We again have torture, I'm against TORTURE AND DEATH PENALTY, and I point to how we were freed from torture, and I ask if we are back at the times when the third estate was used as shoe leather and were tortured. We need to free ourselves again by first finding out the faCTS.
Logic_ill
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Re: Torture

Post by Logic_ill »

I don't think we've ever been free from torture. At least, we weren't after the French Revolution. We are generally milder these days, but there are still forms of torture going on. I understand your concerns about torture and the death penalty applied to the thrid estate, but I've got every right to babble anything I want to. Or are you going to torture me for for your obvious misunderstanding??

Torture people with the faCTS blauw bloed and your odd sense of humor...

Ta Ta
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Blauw bloed
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Re: Torture

Post by Blauw bloed »

Logic_ill wrote:I don't think we've ever been free from torture. At least, we weren't after the French Revolution. We are generally milder these days, but there are still forms of torture going on. I understand your concerns about torture and the death penalty applied to the thrid estate, but I've got every right to babble anything I want to. Or are you going to torture me for for your obvious misunderstanding??

Torture people with the faCTS blauw bloed and your odd sense of humor...

Ta Ta

All my remarks, posts, topics, books, museum are marked Blauw Bloed, so people may choose to read or not. It's not forced on nobody. The US have employed certain states to torture it's prisoners, and in some European states secret CIA prisons were built were these torturers were employed. This forum seems to be run by the state and does not seem to want the eyes of the peoples to open on what is going on in the world, and what dangers threaten us today, even if we live in the so-called free and democratic west.
Last edited by Blauw bloed on May 21st, 2013, 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Percarus
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Re: Torture

Post by Percarus »

It is indeed a heavenly notion to think that mayhap one day human intelligence and wisdom will elevate to such a level so as to always present alternatives to torture through sheer ingenuity and skill in acquiring the same ends. There is always a way, surely...
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Blauw bloed
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Re: Torture

Post by Blauw bloed »

Percarus wrote:It is indeed a heavenly notion to think that mayhap one day human intelligence and wisdom will elevate to such a level so as to always present alternatives to torture through sheer ingenuity and skill in acquiring the same ends. There is always a way, surely...

Perhaps torture is a means and an end in itself. They torture to terrorise, to subdue, not looking for any true information.
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Kepler1571
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Re: Torture

Post by Kepler1571 »

If we say it is ethical to torture somebody in the classic "the nuke is about to go off in NYC" scenario, then it is also ethical to torture his children to get him to talk.

When we get into universal prohibitions then utilitarian calculus doesn't enter into it any more. Torture is never ethical. (It doesn't work either, but that's a different argument.)
Namthebabe
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Re: Torture

Post by Namthebabe »

Torture is always wrong IMO. I don't ever condone causing people pain.
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HIHIHIHIHI
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Re: Torture

Post by HIHIHIHIHI »

Namthebabe wrote:Torture is always wrong IMO. I don't ever condone causing people pain.
A world without morals, is a world of pain.
If you say you know me, then you do not know me.

If you think you know me, then you probably know me.
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Kepler1571
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Re: Torture

Post by Kepler1571 »

HIHIHIHIHI wrote:A world without morals, is a world of pain.
There's plenty of pain with morals, too. In fact it's pain that is in at least one way harder to bear because it also carries responsibility, and thus anguish and guilt.

But I take your meaning.
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HIHIHIHIHI
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Re: Torture

Post by HIHIHIHIHI »

Kepler1571 wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

There's plenty of pain with morals, too. In fact it's pain that is in at least one way harder to bear because it also carries responsibility, and thus anguish and guilt.

But I take your meaning.
I will recant myself then;

a world without morals, is a world with unavoidable pain.

a world with morals, is a world with avoidable pain.
If you say you know me, then you do not know me.

If you think you know me, then you probably know me.
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