Torture
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Re: Torture
Giving birth to a baby involves pain.
Training for the Olympics involves pain.
Pain can exist even in the absence of harm.
But, indeed, I do not see the call that so many in this world seem to feel to inflict harm, bleeding, humiliation, damage, assault, and yes, pain, on other humans. And justified by a narrative.
- DaniellaElaVille1
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Re: Torture
Though, you have to think about it from a different perspective. I'm only 16, a very curious young one, but I do believe that torture is only exceptional on personal accounts. If your mother was brutally murdered, and she died scared for her life, feeling intense pain, and you were given the opportunity to have the murderer tortured to death, you cannot tell me you wouldn't take this offer.Namthebabe wrote:Torture is always wrong IMO. I don't ever condone causing people pain.
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Re: Torture
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Re: Torture
- Kepler1571
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Re: Torture
This is the difference between what the right thing to do is and what the understandable thing to do is.DaniellaElaVille1 wrote:Though, you have to think about it from a different perspective. I'm only 16, a very curious young one, but I do believe that torture is only exceptional on personal accounts. If your mother was brutally murdered, and she died scared for her life, feeling intense pain, and you were given the opportunity to have the murderer tortured to death, you cannot tell me you wouldn't take this offer.
Let's examine the consequences of that situation. Let's make it very simple: you have the murderer at your mercy and nobody will ever know. I think you have three practical choices. (1) is to torture the murderer to death. (2) is to kill them cleanly and be done with it. (3) is to call the cops.
(1) makes you a torturer, something you will have to live with for the rest of your life. Assuming you aren't a sociopath, I think this is something you need to think long and hard about before deciding to do it. You are basically committing your future self to carrying around that responsibility always.
(2) makes you an executioner. Again, you will have to carry around the responsibility but at last there is a fairly agreed-upon narrative that in committing murder the murderer compromised his right to life.
I think the one choice to stay away from is (1). It is not just that torture is always wrong (though it is), but that in attempting to exact some sort of "payment" from the murderer what you are doing is giving yourself a huge debt to yourself that you then have to spend the rest of your life either repaying or suppressing. That may be morally perilous, and if nothing else it sounds like a lot of work.
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Re: Torture
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Re: Torture
- Kepler1571
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Re: Torture
No, that's "torture" only in the metaphorical sense that it is torture to be a Mets fan. Torture is physical duress.Xris wrote:It depends on what you call torture and what you call pain.It depends on what life you choose to save. Lets say a man condemned to die for horrendous murder has information that will save a thousand lives.You promise him freedom in exchange for the information but never intend to let him free. Is that torture?
There are other coercive acts that don't make you a model citizen but fall short of torture. For instance, threatening to torture isn't torture (or you have an infinite regress). Those things may still be wrong, but they're not torture.
I don't think it depends on "what life you choose to save." Torture is one of those things that's outside the utilitarian calculus. It's just a wrong without condition. The classic "ticking time bomb" justification is false, since if it were true it would also justify, for example, torturing the information source's children. After all, more innocent lives would be saved.
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Re: Torture
Lieing to get information to save lives is a much much lesser evil, and I think it is justified in this case. I could happily live with that, and even get a sense of having done something good.
- Kepler1571
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Re: Torture
You are not mistaken. There even appears to be an acronym, CIDT (cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment), that captures the distinction.Daviddunn wrote:If I am not mistaken, from some international law provision, might be the Geneva convention, there is a distinction between inhuman treatment and torture.
Though there are distinguished, international law prohibits both.
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Re: Torture
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Re: Torture
I have mentioned this subject before. I was privy to certain army intelligence acts that could in todays views be seen as torture but no long term harm was done. The prisoner was tricked into believing the most terrible injury was being inflicted upon him.They all submitted and gave credible information. They were all released with no sign of injury and would never complain because of the shame. But they suffered.The idea that torture is simply an act of violence is a naive view in my opinion. Interrogation, investigation and torture are all suitable tools as long as we do no long term harm or lasting injury.Kepler1571 wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
No, that's "torture" only in the metaphorical sense that it is torture to be a Mets fan. Torture is physical duress.
There are other coercive acts that don't make you a model citizen but fall short of torture. For instance, threatening to torture isn't torture (or you have an infinite regress). Those things may still be wrong, but they're not torture.
I don't think it depends on "what life you choose to save." Torture is one of those things that's outside the utilitarian calculus. It's just a wrong without condition. The classic "ticking time bomb" justification is false, since if it were true it would also justify, for example, torturing the information source's children. After all, more innocent lives would be saved.
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Re: Torture
- Theophane
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Re: Torture
With or without morals, this life brings unavoidable pain and suffering. It is a vale of tears that we traverse.HIHIHIHIHI wrote:I will recant myself then;
a world without morals, is a world with unavoidable pain.
a world with morals, is a world with avoidable pain.
- Theophane
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Re: Torture
Reported.Namthebabe wrote:I'm entitled to my opinion, you dumb bitch.
lol..
Who the **** hell are you to tell me how to think?
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