Can suicide be justified?

[Stormcloud]

Like your contributions Schaps and Quirkster. I, too, know what it is like to feel suicidal as it follows me like a shadow through my days. There are many a time I wished I had a dose of Pentobarbital to make it swift, though I do wonder if I would actually use it rather than keep it tucked away? I am not ashamed to admit all this openly, a soul can tire of and lose all appetite for living. It is a dark place like the night sky but fortunately it is dotted with shimmering stars and oceans of space that leave one in awe. Feeling suicidal is part of the existential dilemma and not necessarily a sickness of mind - if such a condition exists. As Camus said: The only serious philosophical problem is whether or not to commit suicide.

[The Allcomist]

(Nested quote removed.)


Now here's a good follow-up question. In American society, you reach the age of majority at the age of 18. Would you say you don't own yourself until then?

I believe that naturally the mother and or father (head of tribe/family) do own there offsprings life until maturity, but to murder your children defeats the purpose of perpetuation. Of course it's never lawfully accepted but it doesn't make sense in nature either.

[Dreager]

I do not need to justify myself to anyone. My choices are my own responsibility. If I suicide you are quite welcome to argue over the carcass.

here here

[The Quirkster]

Obviously the question is intended as a vehicle for discussion by members. Any answers need to be viewed with caution however as the "philosophically" derived opinions may be irrelevant to real life.. Those would then cease to serve any useful function other than entertainment - and would be worthy of the same contempt with which Nietzsche regarded religious ideologies that have no relevance to real- life's sufferings...Viktor Frankl addresses the critical importance of being able to find meaning and purpose to one's life in affecting survivability in his death camp experiences ( "Man's Search for Meaning). Thus as a philosophical basis for life a reason to carry on the struggle to live is essential. Without a reason to live, life is existentially meaningless and suicide ( with a termination of individual suffering) may be a meaningful option.

I see your point, and I'm sorry I got caught up in personal opinion, not philosophical inquiry. Let's try and leave subjectivity behind.

If one is alive, and is unfettered in their relationship to the world, to what end is their purpose for continuing to live? It would be fruitless to get into quality of life here, it's too broad a subject (existing vs. being vs. living, etc. and the normal connotations we adjoin to these words), so one could argue that the mere existence of one being can be positive or negative to the world, if we were to take a utilitarian view, and perhaps we could speculate that the accomplishments one may achieve in life can further help humanity.

We can make the case for suicide, in certain circumstances, as death brings about life in various means. The dead body can be utilised as food, fertiliser, for forensic or scientific purposes, or for odd taxidermical purposes.

I suppose one may just find the idea of simple subsistence satisfying in some way (haven't been able to use sibilance for years!), providing that their existence does not encroach upon the lives of those who seek to find reason in life, which of course goes both ways. One who seeks to find meaning in life is equally required to respect the decisions of the other who merely wants to subsist.

It's possible that even by living, whether one attaches value to the world around them or not, can be a sheer experiment in just subsisting for no other purpose but to subsist.

You pose a very good question, Schaps, because I would contend that the value of a life in today's Western world is of more value and worthy of more attention than that of 4000 years ago. The proliferation of "civilisation" has seen the individual grow exponentially in how, at least in Western nations, a single life has become more noteworthy than in the past. I don't mean to pretend that humans have become all-loving, but that the social contract we constructed is more regulated than it has ever been, and if a person goes missing, society is made aware of this and called upon to help find them, whereas millennia ago, such a circumstance would be, and this is my own opinion, of less merited inquiry.

Just a passing thought.

Cheers

[Stormcloud]

Leave subjectivity behind? It is from sharing first hand experience that we are able to add further dimension to what we are attempting to understand and at the same time form connections on a deeper level - a quality that so lacks as to make people feel isolated which further enhances ones leaning towards suicide.

[The Quirkster]

Leave subjectivity behind? It is from sharing first hand experience that we are able to add further dimension to what we are attempting to understand and at the same time form connections on a deeper level - a quality that so lacks as to make people feel isolated which further enhances ones leaning towards suicide.

You, perchance, didn't peruse the earlier posts of this thread, I suppose, did you?

I'm quite sure you haven't, have you? Because I have posted earlier in this thread concerning my own horrific personal experiences with suicide throughout my life and the lives of those I love most.

But Schaps asked, in the pursuit of philosophical inquiry, which is rather an apt request given that this is a philosophy forum, if we might tread a different path of discourse to the one that had seemingly prevailed the entire thread, as myself and others put forward personal, subjective arguments about suicide and its meanings/consequences/ramifications/religious beliefs, etc.

As such, I think that Schaps has a point, and I thought it would benefit myself at least to discuss the topic from as objective a viewpoint as possible, and by benefit, I mean learning from others the ideas they may posit. That's why I came here, to learn and to acquaint myself with others who enjoyed philosophy as I do, and in whom I give much more merit to the majority, if not all the posters here, the intelligence, wisdom and fathomless imagination, than I do my own.

I've seen a few of your posts, Stormcloud, and I know I can learn a lot from you. I sincerely believe that I may better educate myself by reading your posts and your thoughts.

Cheers

[Stormcloud]

Please accept my apology, The Quirkster, I did not relate back but shot off on a tangent - one of my shortcomings! Perhaps it is time I... appeared before the board? Thank you for your kind remark. I must apply myself to being more objective. Have a pleasant weekend. (Michael in rural Victoria, Aust)

[Lx1337]

YES.

Suicide is personal choice. There will be no regrets. Life sucks.

If you think suicide is difficult, would you volunteer to be shot in the head? I thought so. The human body has critical areas. A shot thru the brain stem is always fatal and painless. Over a billion human beings were killed by guns alone like the AK-47. Think of executions by guns, they are always humane because a gunshot happens faster than chemicals.

If college students, Hitler, teenagers, children, Hentrix, Monroe, Cobain, Disney star, and others can do it, you can too. If everyone does it, then it must be right.

A gunshot to the head in an isloated area is GUARANTEED death. Hitler's way out is more better, alcohol, gunshot, and cyanide.

Why grow old and later die from cancer, alzheimers, parkenson's, and disease???! late 20's and 30's is the perfect time to go. Good people die young.

-- Updated September 22nd, 2013, 11:42 pm to add the following --

(Nested quote removed.)


I believe that naturally the mother and or father (head of tribe/family) do own there offsprings life until maturity, but to murder your children defeats the purpose of perpetuation. Of course it's never lawfully accepted but it doesn't make sense in nature either.

At 18 years old, you can go to war and kill, but can not euthanize yourself??? wtf.

late 20's and 30's is the perfect age to see if your life sucks at midpoint, then you can end it.

A gunshot to the head is more humane.

[Thinking critical]

LX1337 wrote

At 18 years old, you can go to war and kill, but can not euthanize yourself??? wtf.

late 20's and 30's is the perfect age to see if your life sucks at midpoint, then you can end it.

A gunshot to the head is more humane

Why are you so obsessed with killing yourself and preaching all this ******** to people who obviously have a much firmer grip on reality than yourself. You need hug or something dude.....

[Stormcloud]

You're not wrong, Thinking critical; I reckon we should have a regular hug day as we have a very sad and lost humanity out here. Maybe a few tight, warm hugs would open the eyes to the bigger picture. Guns...I hate them! I remember back in the 70s watching a Kung Fu show when Kwai Chang Caine bent down over a body that had just been shot and shook his head saying "steel... against flesh!" That scene really impacted me. I am so glad I live in Australia with our tight gun controls. Have much of the western world been desensitised by all this brutality commited by a 'supposed' civilised humanity? People suck up (as entertainment) violence and mayhem like Incubi and Succubi. A lifetime of watching this toxic rubbish should be enough to make most unbalanced people suicidal - justifiably so.

[Thinking critical]

I struggle to comprehend the gun mentality over in the states, it's pointless arguing with mentality of "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".......the thing is, guns just make it easy and cowardly. Remove the guns and see if they've got the balls to kill someone with their bare hands........I doubt it.

[Stormcloud]

>>>>>The American psyche displays fear at it's ultimate. Frightening, that<<<<<

[Newme]

Socrates did it.

Actually, Socrates did not kill himself without the help of the higher hand of law. He found himself in a catch-22 - and decided that it was better to be willing to physically die rather than be controlled by the fear of dying. He decided it was better to die physically than to die morally.

[Platos stepchild]

Here's the thing: I'll turn 60 in three weeks. I'm being evicted from my home of 14 years. I started a decent job, last week; but, I failed the training program and got fired. My hands are hurting from diabetic neuropathy. I'm an amputee, due to diabetes.

I've dosed up on my pain medicine, and a sh**t load of sleeping piles. I just wanted to sleep. All those meds, however have made me hyper. I'm thinking of those vials of insulin in my refrigerator. I could so easily shoot up on several cc's, and just quietly die.

The one thing I had going for me was my intellect. Flunking the training program for such a desperately needed job makes me feel like a retard. My mind has a tenebrous darkness, insinuating into it's roots. All that's left of my mind is a taunt, Giacometti Walking Man.


I'll be on the street within a few weeks, just in time for Christmas. I'm old, and I'm scared. There's an easy way out, just a few feet away. I wish I could give an account of what it's like to die. It's hard to take the first step. But, there's got to be a threshold after which all the remaining steps are easy. I'll find out.

[Felix]

You are still young, PS... there are social agencies that can help you in your time of need. Most of us fall into the abyss at some time and need help crawling out of it.

The one thing I had going for me was my intellect.

It's still going for you, I have been impressed by it. Feel free to pm me if I may be of any assistance.