Dying is inextricably linked with living. And just to highlight this point, the same drug can make either "dying" or "living" seem (drugged perception) easy. The point is that there is no consciousness that chooses life to be hard. "Hard" is an unconscious process.Theophane wrote:
(Nested quote removed.)
Dying is easy. Living is hard!
Can suicide be justified?
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
- Anathematized_one
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
Why would it matter if I was or not? You're REALLY terrible at logical debate; the logical fallacies here are so blatant and obvious that I'm not even going to bother because all you're going to do is counter with more extreme non-sequitur sophistry.Theophane wrote:Are you an ancient samurai, Anathemized_one? I'm not. Do you adhere to the strict code of Bushido? I don't! Do you honestly believe death is infinitely more desirable than dishonour? How many humiliations and defeats have you suffered in your lifetime? Probably many. Personally, I think even the worst loss of face is bearable (if you can find the strength) without resorting to ritual self-disembowelment. I choose to go on living even amid my shame and dishonour.
Actually, it isn't attractive for me and I don't prefer dark or light or anything (spiritually speaking), but thank you for the near ad hominem baseless assumptions and accusations.Why is death so attractive for you? You seem to prefer the dark (spiritually speaking).
And yet more illogical, unqualified, thought-terminating clichés...Dying is easy. Living is hard!
Agreed. Almost nobody would willingly choose a hard life for no reason. None are born in a completely equal state nor live in an equal state. All men are not "created equal" or given equal opportunity or beginnings. Some are "lucky" from birth, some "unlucky"; some work hard, some do not... and yet any person with any combination of beginnings, luck or hard work end up having an easy or hard life due, at least in part, to contingencies outside of their control.Granth wrote:Dying is inextricably linked with living. And just to highlight this point, the same drug can make either "dying" or "living" seem (drugged perception) easy. The point is that there is no consciousness that chooses life to be hard. "Hard" is an unconscious process.
I'm never indirect/insinuating w/out explicitly saying I am (but may not say exactly what). I have a large vocabulary, but use common speech (not all are the same reading level or speak native English). What I say means exactly that and nothing else.
- Thinking critical
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
- Poptart
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
Where did you get that idea from?Theophane wrote:
There's nothing noble about suicide. There's nothing good or empowering in it. It's cowardly.
Consider this:
A soldier volunteers for a mission which will most certainly result in his death. For this he is honoured and revered, showered with medals for his selfless sacrifice. But a man who decides his life is futile and chooses to waste no more resources by ending it is called a coward. Can you see a certain hypocrisy here?
I think you will find that those religions which condemn suicide do so not because they value life (because those same priests who condemn the suicide will happily attend an execution or bless the grave of a war hero) but because they want to prevent people from having control over their own lives.
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
- Poptart
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
Oh dear, is that the best you can do?Theophane wrote:I think that is your own paranoia talking.
Ad hominem arguments are prohibited according to the forum rules, btw.
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
I think you're wrong. I think you just want someone to agree with you.Where did you get that idea from?
Consider this:
A soldier volunteers for a mission which will most certainly result in his death. For this he is honoured and revered, showered with medals for his selfless sacrifice. But a man who decides his life is futile and chooses to waste no more resources by ending it is called a coward. Can you see a certain hypocrisy here?
I think you will find that those religions which condemn suicide do so not because they value life (because those same priests who condemn the suicide will happily attend an execution or bless the grave of a war hero) but because they want to prevent people from having control over their own lives.
- Anathematized_one
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
Technically, you are the only one not qualifying his/her position and making logical fallacies and not arguing against any points made, just using and hominem attacks against different people who disagree.Theophane wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
I think you're wrong. I think you just want someone to agree with you.
So you can say one is wrong all you want, but without qualifying why without attacking the person rather than the argument, your argument remains completely invalid and therefore the only point here that is truly wrong.
I could easily say I think you're an idiot who is nothing more than a contrarian, but without qualifying why, it cannot be assumed to be true nor is it relevant to proving your argument wrong. It is impossible to prove your argument wrong as you have yet to make an actual argument.
I'm never indirect/insinuating w/out explicitly saying I am (but may not say exactly what). I have a large vocabulary, but use common speech (not all are the same reading level or speak native English). What I say means exactly that and nothing else.
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
Hmm. I'm not sure we're talking of the same thing. What you describe sounds more like "annihilation anxiety". I am describing a physiological response involving the mind with regards to "addressing" the "problem" that annihilation anxiety poses.Granth wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
No, not too blunt. I just didn't find anything in your response to dispute. "The ringer", for anyone who has become aware of it's possibility to arise at any time, is nothing more than like being aware of death always being at one's shoulder. It is not something either myself or my friend needs to fear or control. It is just part of shedding this disguise, or, the effective "growth" process of elimination rather than accumulation. It is merely momentum.
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
Nothing in that unless you can describe this "addressing the problem". Physiological, you say. What do you mean?Discards wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
Hmm. I'm not sure we're talking of the same thing. What you describe sounds more like "annihilation anxiety". I am describing a physiological response involving the mind with regards to "addressing" the "problem" that annihilation anxiety poses.
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
- Discards
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
I suppose the "problem" that arises from the anxiety associated with annihilation is purely a matter of perspective. One can be utterly compounded into solipsism and universal consciousness at once. The unification of all being destroyed in the perceived notion of one being is the weight of the world. The problem with annihilation anxiety is to have this weight of the world on top of you - when in fact we all carry it. Nonetheless the utter destruction of it among all citizens of humanity, ontology, and thereabouts is a potentiality. Terror describes the feeling that goes with annihilation anxiety. It is purely conceptual.Granth wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
Nothing in that unless you can describe this "addressing the problem". Physiological, you say. What do you mean?
So the mind does the only thing it is capable of in order to make amends with the world it is set to destroy. It eliminates the ability to conceptualize. As the brain is the centre for conceptualization, a physiological occurance accompanies a mental occurance in the process of responding to the lack of existence faced as a potential in the hybrid being of the forsaken messiah to be.
The mind controls itself. It clamps down on itself. Somewhere between physical presence and conceptual thought a clamp is placed inside the mind. Depending on the severity of one's dilemma, the clamp is stronger or weaker. In my case it was stronger because, for whatever reason, I was destined to carry the weight of the world for a longer period - compared to the average person. Are we talking about the same thing?
- Pduran369
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
Anybody for philosophy of science?
Burke
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Re: Can suicide be justified?
If we think further there's a phonebook or two or more that could be added to the list. There's only a few people I'd leave out, but they're mostly already all dead. Overall however, I believe if we all committed mass suicide the world would be a much improved place.Keithprosser3 wrote:I think that in some cases suicide is not only justified but should be mandatory. Jim Carrey and Sarah Palin spring to mind.
Also in response to the thread, I did not ask to be born. I was put into existence by some force outside of my power and I was entirely incapable of intervening to prevent it. Had I been able to foresee my future life, I would have prevented it; thus, suicide is not morally unjustifiable. However having said that, I'm married, and I have to consider what the effect would be on my better half. Would the cops come in and arrest my wife for murder? We all know the first suspect is either the husband or the wife. So my suicide would in that case be morally unjustifiable as the cops would frame my wife for murder and make her life utterly miserable. There is the welfare of someone else at stake. And it wouldn't be the first time the cops have framed an innocent person. They do it as a matter of habit, all the time, so they can say they've done their jobs and close all those open files they make them look so inefficient.
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
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Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
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