Euthanasia- Good or bad?

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Lily_Alex
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Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Lily_Alex » July 15th, 2013, 11:47 am

Many ethical debates have surrounded the moral dilemma of euthanasia, is it wrong to take your own life? Or have someone else do it for you, and if in this sense, is it murder?

["A man, even if seriously sick or prevented in the exercise of its higher functions, is and will be always a man ... [he] will never become a 'vegetable' or an 'animal,'" the Pope said. "The intrinsic value and personal dignity of every human being does not change depending on their circumstances." ... Pope John Paul II, 2004]

Cruelsuit1
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Cruelsuit1 » July 15th, 2013, 12:54 pm

Lily_Alex wrote:Many ethical debates have surrounded the moral dilemma of euthanasia, is it wrong to take your own life? Or have someone else do it for you, and if in this sense, is it murder?
There is no more absurd superstition entertained by the mind of man than that which says that a human life must be extended for every possible excruciating second or it is a violation of the sanctity of life.

I was raised Catholic and I have absolute contempt for anyone who has the audacity to assume the office of "Pope." The Catholic church and the papacy are anti-Christian. Their teachings on euthanasia are the creation of men, not God. Priests prey on people's fears of damnation to control them with false doctrine. God's commandment was about murder, not aiding a merciful transition to death.

Lily_Alex
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Lily_Alex » July 15th, 2013, 1:50 pm

I found that quote I thought it would be interesting to discuss. I am myself catholic but find myself disputing the catholic views on life situations. Personally I feel it's up to the individual what to do in their life for it is down to them what happens after death.

Cruelsuit1
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Cruelsuit1 » July 15th, 2013, 2:08 pm

Lily_Alex wrote:I found that quote I thought it would be interesting to discuss.
He said that a man would never become a vegetable. But man will also not be a piece of fruit where the Pope tries to squeeze every last drop of "life" out of him before he expires.

I sat up one night with a veteran of the D-Day invasion who was dying of stomach cancer. My job was to administer morphine periodically for the pain. He moaned and writhed all the night and endured the anguish until he died early the next day. Why would it have been wrong to stop his excruciating pain? What was gained by extending his life for a few minutes or hours? Why did he have to suffer for someone else to avoid a punishment?

Lily_Alex
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Lily_Alex » July 15th, 2013, 2:16 pm

No I believe helping someone who is going to die anyway avoid as much pain as possible is not a bad thing. This is why my views on catholic life is so sceptical. They argue it's wrong but in cases like that it's perfectly right!

Cruelsuit1
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Cruelsuit1 » July 15th, 2013, 2:41 pm

Lily_Alex wrote:No I believe helping someone who is going to die anyway avoid as much pain as possible is not a bad thing. This is why my views on catholic life is so sceptical. They argue it's wrong but in cases like that it's perfectly right!
The men who run the Catholic Church can make mistakes. Jesus warned against calling anyone on earth "Father." Yet the priests do this. Jesus warned against people who make a show of their religiosity, or "make their phylacteries broad" or are impressed by personality and station, or store up wealth, or seek high places for themselves or love to be hailed in the village square. Sound familiar? Never did Jesus expect anyone to kiss his ring. It is a disgrace.

Jesus wanted mercy and not sacrifice. What is more of a sacrifice than forcing a helpless person to suffer needlessly to satisfy a superstition?

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Duncanmajinda
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Duncanmajinda » July 15th, 2013, 2:59 pm

This world is full of miracles including miracles of survival and recovery from illness. In that respect, the term terminal illness makes sense only if you mean that under normal circumstances, the illness is incurable. If you believe in miracles like myself, there is always a chance that a miracle may occur and a person may survive or recover gainst all odds. Euthanasia precludes any such chances and odds and it is bad although the motive may be good i.e. to end any further suffering. Taking my argument further, euthanasia is tantamount to murder of some degree.

Lily_Alex
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Lily_Alex » July 15th, 2013, 3:11 pm

Again my views on miracles are sceptical looking at the scientific approach and also the common ones. Personally I don't feel euthanasia is a bad act, many people suffer in life for no reason and God gave humans free will so it is up to the individual what to do with their life, whether it be end it or not. After all if it is a sin God is opposed to, then why the free will?

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Zoot
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Zoot » July 18th, 2013, 11:02 pm

In a world with a perfect medical system, it'd be a debate worth having. Until then, I'm against it for purely practical reasons.

I know of too many horror stories from my own family and my friends to even consider allowing euthanasia. There's too much negligence, too many mistakes, too many understaffed hospitals, too many DNR orders given against the wishes of the patient & the patient's family...

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Theophane
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Theophane » July 19th, 2013, 8:00 am

@Lily
Many ethical debates have surrounded the moral dilemma of euthanasia, is it wrong to take your own life?
Be careful not to conflate euthanasia with suicide as they are not the same thing.

Lily_Alex
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Lily_Alex » July 19th, 2013, 8:16 am

Thanks for the advice it's hard not to confuse the two because in the same sense it's the consenting of taking your own life. :)

-- Updated July 19th, 2013, 8:22 am to add the following --

To Zoot, I am sceptical on euthanasia in an unbalanced way I don't think it's bad or good it all depends but I agree with the negatives it can be a bad approach.

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Hereandnow
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Hereandnow » July 21st, 2013, 5:11 am

The legitimacy of euthanasia rests with the right of the individual. We do not want a nanny government. If government can tell you you have to suffer because it can't figure out what to do with the idea of letting you seek, have assistence in a dignified death of your own choosing, then government has become an agency of torture for no good reason. Even Cheney waterboarded for a reason. Then, what is this "no good reason"?

It is wrong because it is prohibited by the hypocratic oath. I don' t see how this oath recommends doctors to torture patients, which is what withholding desired death with diginity is tantamount to. If it is implied, then t is the oath that needs changing; it was not given to Moses on a mountain top.

It is wrong because it offends God: The worst reason. I've read the Bible. I never read one line referring to euthanasia. Not one. This is all people's interpretation who have centuries of confused tradition in their thinking that they take for unequivocal truth. It takes an effort, a real effort, not to think reasonably in order to believe God wants you to suffer for suffering's sake. God is not a raving psychopath.

BUT: It is wrong because we are trying to preserve a sense of dignity of human life itself, and this requires that we not treat the taking of a life at all frivolously. Therefore, prohibiting euthnasia is matter of preserving and perpetuating ameaning of being human. There is also a slippery slope here: Today euthanasia,tomorrow, say, experimenting on humans, eugenics, and in general a dehumanized society that would enjoy watching executions on TV, gladiatorials for criminals; we would become a hardened and callus people. It is there in our chemistry as a possibility. The Nasis were like this, as were the Japanese, and the romans, and so forth. We have to be very, very careful when we make a move to legitimize homicide.

Now that's a good argument. Does it work?

Lily_Alex
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Lily_Alex » July 21st, 2013, 8:07 am

I agree with God being an absurd reason because when it comes down to it it's this life and no one can be sure of a God. This topic is difficult to get my head around, I think I'm leaning more towards for than against because when it comes down to it, it's the individual that's important not surrounding parties that disagree.

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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Leonodas » July 23rd, 2013, 9:38 pm

I second Hereandnow, and I wanted to follow up on that mention of "nanny government".

On the other hand, if you permitted euthanasia, then you also open the door for the government to say, "Well, sucks to be you, we've tried everything (No, really!) but you're just going to have to die now." The excuse would be that they were "easing your pain", but the reality was that they were just saving money.

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Hereandnow
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Re: Euthanasia- Good or bad?

Post by Hereandnow » July 23rd, 2013, 11:38 pm

Lily_Alex said:


I agree with God being an absurd reason because when it comes down to it it's this life and no one can be sure of a God. This topic is difficult to get my head around, I think I'm leaning more towards for than against because when it comes down to it, it's the individual that's important not surrounding parties that disagree.

Right, but issues don't really go away. While I think there are unproblematic cases for euthanasia, say your every breathe is torture, what about depressive types who could change their minds with help and therepy? Should they be allowed to just end it all if they choose? Perhaps they would thank those who interfered when they came to a better frame of mind. n short, do we want a society in which you can go to your doctor and just ask for a nice clean death, no questions asked? I say yes.



Leonodas said:


if you permitted euthanasia, then you also open the door for the government to say, "Well, sucks to be you, we've tried everything (No, really!) but you're just going to have to die now." The excuse would be that they were "easing your pain", but the reality was that they were just saving money.

But there is a difference between euthanasia and just being euthanized. This latter is deeply immoral and no one would defend it these days, unless they're neonazi genocidal eugenicists. The former requires consent. But then, the slippery slope argument does endure: Today euthanasia, tomorrow a general diminished regard for the value of human life. It could end up as you describe above.

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