What has God actually done wrong ?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.

Re: What has God actually done wrong ?

Post Number:#406  Postby Dark Matter » January 9th, 2017, 5:12 pm

Belindi wrote:
I thought that the imagery of emanations of god into the relative world was no more significant than imagery of anthropomorphic high God Who intervenes in history as Creator and Maintainer . Are you saying that different imagery signifies different meaning?


You said, "The good causes us to know the relative world, and the good is also within the relative world. The good is not the relative world plus our awareness of the relative world, but transcends the relative world and our awareness of it, separately and both together. This transcending of both nature and our awareness of nature (i.e. extended matter and mind) is therefore more real than extended matter and mind. Is it not the case that what is Reality is Being?" That's Plotinus and the imagery of the sundial fits perfectly. I suggest reading Return to the One by Brian Hines.

There is only one God, who is all love; every human being has an immortal soul, whose highest destiny is to be united with God; if we live virtuous lives, we will join our heavenly Father after death, but if we do not, justice will be done; we must humbly yield to the divine will, accepting with equanimity whatever life brings us; to be attracted to the sensual pleasures of this world is to be distanced from God, the Good we seek but never find in material pursuits. And then there is the Christian conception of spirituality, which I won’t bother to summarize, as it should already be familiar to the reader.
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Re: What has God actually done wrong ?



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Re: What has God actually done wrong ?

Post Number:#407  Postby Fooloso4 » January 9th, 2017, 6:52 pm

Belindi:

Are you saying that different imagery signifies different meaning?


Yes. As I pointed out there is no mention of God or gods in relation to the forms and the good. Socrates was accused of atheism and never denied it.

My agenda is to find some religious/ethical narrative that is reasonable and aids life, peace and so on.


An admirable goal. Mine is quite different. Based on the assumption that we have a great deal to learn from the greatest minds I attempt to understand them on their own terms.

Plato has been appropriated in different ways for much of western history. That is not to say that this is wrong but it can be quite a shock to see a different picture emerge when one reads good translations of primary texts together with careful commentaries.

It is, however, a difficult task and some simply prefer to take what they find wherever they find it. Plato’s Socrates, in fact, says that he and his friends did just this. And sometimes an incorrect interpretation can yield useful and influential insights.
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Re: What has God actually done wrong ?

Post Number:#408  Postby Dark Matter » January 10th, 2017, 9:47 pm

Fooloso4 wrote:An admirable goal. Mine is quite different. Based on the assumption that we have a great deal to learn from the greatest minds I attempt to understand them on their own terms.

"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought." -- Matsuo Basho
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Re: What has God actually done wrong ?

Post Number:#409  Postby Fooloso4 » January 10th, 2017, 11:34 pm

Dark Matter:

"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought." -- Matsuo Basho


You missed the irony. Actually there are two levels of irony. First, for those who read it and understand it. Second for those who do not understand as evidenced by repeating it.

Great thinkers give nothing away. A little lesson in how to read them.
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Re: What has God actually done wrong ?

Post Number:#410  Postby Hugh of Borg » February 12th, 2017, 6:12 pm

I don't think The Lord has done anything Wrong.
But people do many things that are Bad and many things that are Wrong and that is why they suffer.
Their MUST be consequences for Sin and for those who cause suffering to others.
And if that is the case, then that would explain all the suffering that there is on Earth.
People paying for their Sins. Sins they did in their previous life.
People suffering the rebound effects of causing suffering to others.
It HAS to be that way.
There HAS to be consequences for Bad things that people do.

And all the ones who Sin today, will pay for their Sins in their next lives.
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Re: What has God actually done wrong ?

Post Number:#411  Postby MindfulMystic » April 13th, 2017, 9:53 pm

For me, god did everything wrong...for another, he did nothing wrong. It's dependent on whether he is there for you, or if you are here for him. If I lived my life with him there for me, I will have him here for me-I would have done nothing wrong, and everything right. If however, I'm lived-being there for him while acknowledging him as being not here for me-I have done nothing right, and everything wrong...

God is our universal counter part. If I do nothing right and everything wrong, he does everything right-and nothing wrong. Keep in mind, in Existance there is only one thing-"it". That's not to say only 'IT' exists, because outside of Existance-is nothing. The conundrum that god faced, was exactly this. He did what we did, he defined what was done.

He gives definition to definition, and understanding to understanding...this was given what this is, and that was given what that is. After he did everything(or so he thought), all he had to do was nothing..this brings us to the reality of things. Nothing came before him, and he turned around! In his mind, that was giving nothing-when in fact, it was this sole action that gave us what we came to know as everything. When he took nothing(that was given), he gave everything(that was not given).

The universe has no one beside it, even if everyone is a side of it. God did exactly that, he assigned us as sides of Existance, according to our acceptance of him...he basically took the costume of no one, and relinquished everyone's to no one. This brought all of us to one, and none(no one) of us to all. Picture this, you've got nothing that I want-but everything that is wanted by me. I've got everything that you want, but nothing to be wanted by me. The choice was made to have choice. No one shouldn't have to be anyone, and everyone shouldn't have to be one of anything.

So here we are, no one coming out of things- meets the body that he was gone with going into. Thinking to know at this point that- "there" isn't a point, and known to "think" as "here pointing" caused our "perfected order" to encounter disordered perfection""..."this is it", we exclaimed. It was proclaimed by us,"we are here disordered, for me to be there;this ordered!". After I'd filed you, as me, in the incorrect order-as taught, I said "I have disordered me-there, into that order. I am now here, in perfection that is imperfectly disordered. What is it I haven't ordered?". Ponderously, I lipped our reply"no order was heard to us from me, because everything has ordered itself as me. Therefore I order myself, unto YOU-in the reverse, of my order".

Every direction becomes a director...every being, becomes nothing been. Everything been becomes, nothing to be ...what was all this for? Why should a mother birth a child, when birth concieved all fathers? Why have a tree sway, when naught escapes from swaying trees? In conclusion, before me, god was with everything done right by...even nothing, until I did everything wrong-and still had his nothing wrong, he was unaware of his predicament. I have me to thank for all of this-if I'm still there, could you thank me?
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Re: What has God actually done wrong ?

Post Number:#412  Postby Belindi » April 14th, 2017, 1:07 pm

Fooloso4 wrote:

(Belindi wrote)
My agenda is to find some religious/ethical narrative that is reasonable and aids life, peace and so on.


(Fooloso4 replied) An admirable goal. Mine is quite different. Based on the assumption that we have a great deal to learn from the greatest minds I attempt to understand them on their own terms.


Is there a way to combine your aim and mine so that your philosophical aim is not an ivory tower, and mine doesn't distort the source?
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Re: What has God actually done wrong ?

Post Number:#413  Postby Fooloso4 » April 15th, 2017, 12:14 am

Belindi:

Is there a way to combine your aim and mine so that your philosophical aim is not an ivory tower, and mine doesn't distort the source?


I think so. I am not sure how though.
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Re: What has God actually done wrong ?

Post Number:#414  Postby Dark Matter » April 15th, 2017, 12:48 pm

Whitedragon wrote:.

So the question in this thread is, what has the Lord actually done wrong, since his main goal was always to keep us safe.

Quite a bold assumption you make there.
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Re: What has God actually done wrong ?

Post Number:#415  Postby Felix » April 15th, 2017, 12:53 pm

Safety in numbers? Be fruitful and multiply? That hasn't quite worked out, has it?
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
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Re: What has God actually done wrong ?

Post Number:#416  Postby LuckyR » April 20th, 2017, 12:00 pm

A god's actions cannot be judge to be wrong or right without knowing what a god's goal or intention is. Since those are even more unknowable than whether there are even gods, this thread is a nonstarter.
"As usual... it depends."
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