Dark Matter wrote: ↑
June 13th, 2018, 10:13 pm
Greta wrote: ↑
June 13th, 2018, 9:17 pm
Buridan's Ass is the most feeble of arguments, as if belief and non-belief in a supernatural entity are matters of life and death as is food for a donkey.
It's not an argument. Never was. It's called a "paradox" because it's a paradox and not an argument; it's a paradox you refuse to confront.
There is no paradox with humans and belief in god, only for donkeys with hay.
Don't be disingenuous. You used Buridan's Ass as an argument against agnosticism, and I showed how it didn't validly apply.
Dark Matter wrote:
Agnostics most certainly have worldviews. It is impossible for an intellectually competent adult to not hold world views. Obviously. However, unlike theists, agnostics (and most atheists) don't claim that their views and perceptions reflect the absolute objective truth about the nature of reality.
In view of what I said, that is a biased, if not irrational, claim.
Ahem. Pot and the kettle much? If you believe in God as the ultimate [whatever] of reality then you are making truth claims about the absolute nature of reality.
Dark Matter wrote:
This thread is ultimately about humility...
Your hate and vitriol belies that; it's about you needing to be right.
It's not hate and vitriol, it's irritation and impatience with your creative squirming. Raised in the dramatic language of myth and lost in the romanticisation of phenomena, theists seem to almost be invariably tragic drama queens. You take cheap "drive by" pot shots without substantiation or depth and then whine and desperately obfuscate when challenged.
Me wrote:Thus I am agnostic. I'm not playing games with this, looking for life hacks or claiming things I cannot possibly know. I am just interested - curious, hungry to know more. Of course I'm atheist to Yahweh, the big man in the sky, but the nature of the larger stage of reality is beyond my ken - or anyone's, if they care/dare to admit it.
Dark Matter wrote:Are you also agnostic regarding what a human being is? A conception of that is critical to a coherent worldview.
Hurrah, something useful with which to engage. If I was a melodramatic theist, steeped in the blood and thunder of mystical texts, I might claim that humans are the closest expression in the universe to God so far (at least in this part of the galaxy). However, I am just an agnostic so I find other angles more compelling.
To start, I am generally awed by reality and think that the business of our lives forces us to take the miraculous for granted, to treat the extraordinary as ordinary. None of it - life, the universe etc is ordinary. Just 5% of the universe is matter, and almost all of that is plasma. This makes even the humble space rock is a rare gem in the greater scheme of things. So then how extraordinary is life? Intelligent life? Humans?
So I see humans as jaw-droppingly weird, wonderful and sometimes scary technological apes, the biosphere's most eloquent expression so far, and the funniest! IMO when one sees clearly, in the greater scheme of things humans are extremely funny animals - playful, sly, goofy, clumsy and sometimes brilliant. I gloss over humanity's faults as growing pains. We personally are here for a short time but life and humanity is the long game, and over long periods the extraordinary happens. The lunacy that people complain about will not always be the norm.
So we humans are a stepping stone to the next leap in evolution, and quite possibly we will enable the reproduction of Earth organisms' DNA and creation of new evolutionary paths on other worlds, achieving levels of sophistication that we cannot even imagine.
So what do you think a human being is? Another question - seriously - what do you think a tree is?