Original Sin - What was it?

Alec Smart · Post by **Alec Smart** » November 28th, 2015, 6:09 pm

Wayne92587 wrote: Evil is born of Absolutely Bad Knowledge; Absolutely Bad Knowledge having a dual quality, being mistaken to be Absolutely Good Knowledge,

I never really know what you mean by "bad knowledge", Wayne. To me, bad knowledge would be something like finding out that the waiter at the Indian restaurant had spat in your dinner, after you'd eaten it. But, in this example, it would be almost impossible to mistake it for good knowledge. In other words, it would start out as bad knowledge and become progressively worse knowledge the more you thought about it.

Wayne92587 · Post by **Wayne92587** » November 30th, 2015, 2:51 pm

Alec, sorry for not making myself more clear.

A Lie by definition is a half-truth, a half Truth being absolutely Bad Knowledge, the lie being a deception, absolutely bad knowledge mistaken to be absolutely Good Knowledge, a Lie being knowledge of NoThing; a Lie being knowledge of something that does not exist, a deception.

A deception is an Illusion is a Reality; if your knowledge is of an illusion of Reality then your knowledge is Absolutely Bad Knowledge, mistaken to be Absolutely Good Knowledge.

It is a sin to cause someone to believe a Lie, that person acting upon you Lie has lost their Freedom to make a proper choice.

People suffer, die every day because of deception; believing a Lie to be the truth, Absolutely Bad Knowledge to be Absolutely Good Knowledge.

Many are deceived into believing that Good can not exist without Evil, which is true when it comes to the Knowledge having a dual quality, the knowledge of Good and Evil, Absolutely Bad Knowledge , mistaken to be Absolutely Good Knowledge, a lie believed to be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

When you believe a Lie you have been beguiled, become guileful, a liar.

Guilefulness, If your Reality is based upon an Deception, you are guileful; in repeating your false truth, you become the greatest cause of all suffering.

Alec Smart · Post by **Alec Smart** » November 30th, 2015, 4:05 pm

Wayne92587 wrote: It is a sin to cause someone to believe a Lie, that person acting upon you Lie has lost their Freedom to make a proper choice.

I agree that, in principle, lying should be avoided but I can conceive of circumstances where lying would result in a morally superior outcome.

Wayne92587 · Post by **Wayne92587** » December 1st, 2015, 2:29 pm

True, that is why it is said that man became wise upon eating of this Duality of Knowledge.

-- Updated December 2nd, 2015, 11:43 am to add the following --

Guilfulness seems so insignificant that it is easily ignore as being a serious problem for Man.

Guilefulness is now so ingrained in man's psychic that it is mistaken it to be a part of the norm, OK, Good!

However, look at the horror that the extremes of deception have laid upon the World of Reality.

As Eve said to God in the Garden of Eden after having eaten the Fruit of a Single Source of Knowledge, the Knowledge of Good and Evil; Eve saying to Good the Fruit tasted Good, so I did Eat there of.

Guilefulness being so natural that we lie to ourselves.

Look at the horrors of WW11 that were brought about by the guilefulness of the leader of Germany, Italy, Japan and Russia.

Isis, Fundamental Islam is today, ruled by false Prophets.

Islam is ruled by the Beast; Man having a perverted, distorted sense of Manliness, being a brute.

The basis for the morality of the Fundamentalist Muslim Male being such that the muslim male is a Male Chauvinistic Pig; the fundamentalst male the World over carrying his pig headedness, Machismo into every aspect of daily life.

The God of Islam is a Compassionate God, yet like the SS trooper of WW11, Macho Man, the Fundamentalist Male need only show compassion to his own Kind, being Free to brutalize all others, which would not only include his own wife and female child, but every Female, woman and child.

It is the Moral Law of Islam, the self-righteousness of the Pharaoh, the Pharisees It being forbidden for men with dirty, unclean hands, Men having machismo, Showing no compassion, to not be aloud to touch, become familiar with, to interpret Islamic Law, Sharia; and yet?

Guilefulness of the Male Chauvinistic Pigs of Islam, Male chauvinistic Pigs in general; duplicity, that is the Greatest Cause of all Suffering.

Suffering born of Guilefulness being totally unnecessary, Evil.

el no compassion, a

Skakos · Post by **Skakos** » December 14th, 2015, 5:29 am

One could "know" something which is simply wrong. And that is a "bad" knowledge.
For example now many people "know" that death is the end of everything.
In the old days philosophers did not agree at all with this dogma. (a.k.a. "materialism")
"Knowing" that we are just matter is a bad "knowledge"...

Alec Smart · Post by **Alec Smart** » December 14th, 2015, 1:44 pm

Skakos wrote: "Knowing" that we are just matter is a bad "knowledge"...

It doesn't seem all that bad to me.

Skakos · Post by **Skakos** » December 16th, 2015, 8:06 am

It is, because it distracts you from what is really important in life.

Alec Smart · Post by **Alec Smart** » December 16th, 2015, 1:58 pm

Skakos wrote:It is, because it distracts you from what is really important in life.

How can you know what is important in anyone else's life and what would distract them from it?

Jklint · Post by **Jklint** » December 16th, 2015, 8:34 pm

Skakos wrote:It is, because it distracts you from what is really important in life.

It is our human imagination and wishful thinking which creates the importance, the enhancement. Regarding life itself, we can never be distracted from the really important things because life at its most essential determines what those things are without any further input. We humans have the dubious honor of simply being its value-added agents.

To acknowledge nothing more is not in the least painful. Why should it be?

Wayne92587 · Post by **Wayne92587** » December 17th, 2015, 2:39 pm

Skakos wrote:

"materialism"
"Knowing" that we are just matter is a bad "knowledge"...

Wayne wrote;

You are absolutely correct; we are more than a mere animal born of Flesh and Bone; Man's destiny is to walk the Earth having both a Flesh Body and a Spiritual Body.

The battle between the Empiricist and the Spiritualist, the Philosopher, has been ongoing since Man became more than a mere animal, since Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, since Man became a Humane Being; a Humane Being able walk the Earth having the Dual Qualities of Mind and Body.

Alec Smart · Post by **Alec Smart** » December 17th, 2015, 3:08 pm

Wayne92587 wrote: You are absolutely correct; we are more than a mere animal born of Flesh and Bone; Man's destiny is to walk the Earth having both a Flesh Body and a Spiritual Body.

I only have a flesh body and consider myself to be a mere animal. Many animals are superior to me in as much as some are stronger, some are faster and some can fly, whereas I can't. I am superior to all other species as far as intelligence is concerned, intelligence is the specialist quality of my species just like the ability to run at high speed is the specialist quality of the cheetah. Having this knowledge about myself causes me no problems and I can't think of any way in which it could be regarded as "bad knowledge".

Wayne92587 · Post by **Wayne92587** » December 18th, 2015, 2:40 pm

Alec it bad knowledge simply because it is not true.

Consciousness is not based upon materiality, the rational mind is not born of the dust of the ground; the rational mind is a creation, was created to be man's Mankind's in the quest for Salvation, the Immortality of the Species.

Alec Smart · Post by **Alec Smart** » December 18th, 2015, 3:22 pm

Wayne92587 wrote:Alec it bad knowledge simply because it is not true.

Consciousness is not based upon materiality, the rational mind is not born of the dust of the ground; the rational mind is a creation, was created to be man's Mankind's in the quest for Salvation, the Immortality of the Species.

I have to disagree with you, Wayne. You can't have a mind, and therefore consciousness, without a brain. Being as the brain is most definitely material it follows that consciousness is based on materiality. I could be wrong about this but I think logic is more on my side than yours. If you have any evidence which suggests I am wrong then now would be as good a time as any to present it.

Skakos · Post by **Skakos** » December 27th, 2015, 6:14 pm

Alec Smart wrote:
Skakos wrote:It is, because it distracts you from what is really important in life.
How can you know what is important in anyone else's life and what would distract them from it?

All humans are spiritual beings. Believing that you are not (and that you are just matter) distracts you from what is really important in life - which is trying to reach apotheosis.

Post by **Sy Borg** » December 28th, 2015, 3:23 am

Skakos wrote:It is, because it distracts you from what is really important in life.

Skakos wrote:How can you know what is important in anyone else's life and what would distract them from it?

Alec Smart wrote:All humans are spiritual beings. Believing that you are not (and that you are just matter) distracts you from what is really important in life - which is trying to reach apotheosis.

I think it more likely that Alec and others simply prefer to engage with the spiritual aspects of life indirectly. Problematic attitudes and behaviour from religions have tainted the direct spiritual search for them. So they tend to be more comfortable with the logical positivist approach of being wowed by nature and existence itself.

In a sense, the pursuit of knowledge that promotes ever more understanding is the ultimate tribute and homage to the universe and nature; to reach out and try to understand and engage. I would consider that approach to be at least as reverential and respectful as focusing on the personal. I don't believe "salvation" (self-actualisation?) need necessarily come via traditional human conduits. All you need is love and enthusiasm - from something or someone - irregardless of the conduit used to achieve those happy attitudes.

The biggest problem with knowledge is misuse - either through abuse of empowerment (eg. weapons of war) or negative attitudes that impede people's work and relationships (or tennis stroke, for that matter). I think knowledge is good for humanity. The "noble savage" ideal is naive. The lives of primitive peoples sucked. Ignorance is only bliss until you are tested, and the innocent will inevitably be brutalised.

Still, Skalos, it is odd to see how many scientifically minded people so strongly believe the obviously untested hypothesis that death is final. I figure that the atypical certainty without evidence many atheists display is a reaction to the certainty of religious dogma.