Logically, nothing should exist.

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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GreenBow
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Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by GreenBow » October 7th, 2014, 3:23 am

The simple fact that anything exist is impossible. In pondering where existence derived, if one tries to really hard to "remember" you get an intense nothingness, a block. This simple idea has driven some mad to the point of suicide. Even the theory of the big bang is not true by asking, Where did it come from? God? if so, where did God come from? The deeper one goes in thought the more impossible it is. Of course one could just say, you are a mortal being who's thoughts are too narrow to contemplate such deep things. And only God or for some, the many gods, can truly understand. Nothing is real due to the fact that it is impossible for anything to exist. Prove me wrong.

Alias
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by Alias » October 15th, 2014, 1:23 am

You are correct. Fortunately, the universe predates logic.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire

Vijaydevani
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by Vijaydevani » October 15th, 2014, 1:40 am

Stop pondering where existence derived. Then you will not get "an intense nothingness". Then you will exist. Stand in front of a very very hungry tiger, alone and unarmed. For a very very short time you will really, really exist.
A little knowledge is a religious thing.

Spectrum
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by Spectrum » October 15th, 2014, 2:27 am

First we have to acknowledge the common sense existence of oneself and everything, then live with it.
However, humans are philosophical creatures and thus to optimize living we philosophize and use logic.
Logically, one can infer 1. 'everything exist' and 2. 'nothing exist' depending on the criteria and the contexts one uses for some optimal purposes.

Thus one can accept, toggle between or at the 'same time' hold both logical reality of 1 or 2 depending on one's circumstances to optimize living.
For example when one actualize life to the full, we take it that 'everything exists' but when such a stance becomes a liability, one switch to 2 i.e. 'nothing exists' in the sense of detachment and non-clinging with common sense existence in the background.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

Fooloso4
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by Fooloso4 » October 15th, 2014, 10:38 am

GreenBow:

The simple fact that anything exist is impossible.
If something does in fact exist then its existence is not impossible.

Please explain how something that is actual is not possible.
Nothing is real due to the fact that it is impossible for anything to exist.
What is the logical connection between your inability to explain the origin of existence the conclusion that it is impossible for anything to exist?

You have it backwards. The possibility of existence is not contingent upon the possibility of an explanation. The possibility of an explanation is contingent upon the possibility of existence.

ShrimpMaster
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by ShrimpMaster » October 16th, 2014, 12:57 pm

This is silly and is akin to "who made God?". That question is only relevant if the god is created. Christianity does not suppose that God created, but is referred to as eternally existing. The OP is begging the question.

-- Updated October 16th, 2014, 9:58 am to add the following --

I thought they were approving topics now. How did this topic get approved? Can we get some more intellectually stimulating topics here and now the same ol' same ol'

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Siphersh
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by Siphersh » October 19th, 2014, 10:03 pm

GreenBow wrote:In pondering where existence derived
You're assuming that it does derive. Don't you think that what's actually logically impossible is that existence derives from something more fundamental? Given that it's all of existence that we're talking about.

Sim Al-Adim
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by Sim Al-Adim » October 19th, 2014, 11:49 pm

You are only able to deduce that nothing should be real on the basis that you are real. Therefore, logically, something should be real to the extent that logically, nothing should be real.

Ruskin
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by Ruskin » October 23rd, 2014, 2:30 pm

GreenBow wrote:Where did it come from? God? if so, where did God come from?
God is eternal therefore he always he existed and therefore he didn't in fact come from anywhere it is literrally everything else that exists everywhere that ultimately came from God. It's fairly straightforward but it seems to fly straight over the heads of atheists. If you try to suggest that the universe or existence itself is eternal you will note that everything that we see that exists had it's origins in something else and so had a cause. The cause of existence itself we're talking all things here will be God. If you want to go into whether God is a conscious purposeful entity you can get the teleological argument, the arguments regarding the origin of consciousness itself (it hasn't been demonstrated to be chemical reactions or electricity in the brain) and you have the arguments from freewill, morality and the collective human spiritual experience however that it is expressed. This mental block you seem to be having is that atheism business you will need to put that false man made ideology to one side and this ought to clear things up for you. Someone did have to invent atheism/naturalism as a philosophy you know it never simply came naturally, even the most die hard of atheists like Dawkins have to force themselves against this tendency toward belief which is probably why they get a little flustered and/or spend a lot of their time trying to "prove God doesn't exist".

Image

That's an inner turmoil you will get there when you try deny what you secretly know is true, perhaps you don't like the truth of this for various reasons but the reality of what is isn't going mold itself to conform your own preferences.




Prove me wrong.
No-one can prove your atheist mindset wrong but you demonstrated how illogical, convoluted and flawed such a worldview that denies God is in the post you made. You described it as a "mental block" and what you followed on with demonstrates a deeply confused state of mind. On the subject of demanding to be "proved wrong" this video is worth watching for both atheists and religious fundamentalists (different sides of the same coin)

GreenBow
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by GreenBow » October 27th, 2014, 9:49 pm

+Ruskin I enjoyed your article and I found the video both informative and witty. I am not an atheist, but I don't believe in just one god. I don't support the way of science in the same terms as the rest of atheist minds. I am not a supporter of the big bang theory and the theory of evolution.

Wilson
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by Wilson » October 28th, 2014, 3:01 am

The correct way of putting this is, according to our common sense, logically. the universe shouldn't exist. In other words, if you go back far enough in time, there must have been a time when nothing existed - not even any physical laws. And without anything at all - including no framework of physical laws that could result in something coming into existence - the appearance of a universe seems impossible. And by that logic, God is also impossible, since He couldn't have come from nothing. And a creator God is NOT impossible - just highly improbable.

The problem with that argument is that time is a tricky thing. If the big bang started from something like a black hole, then time - at least that version of time - more or less started with that big bang.

Bottom line, the universe does exist. So if its existence doesn't seem logical, that means that something is wrong with our logic. In other words, we don't understand the physics well enough - and in my opinion never will.

Vijaydevani
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by Vijaydevani » October 28th, 2014, 3:21 am

Wilson wrote: Bottom line, the universe does exist. So if its existence doesn't seem logical, that means that something is wrong with our logic. In other words, we don't understand the physics well enough - and in my opinion never will.
Wilson, that is perfectly put. Sometimes we rationalize to the point of becoming irrational.
A little knowledge is a religious thing.

Ruskin
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by Ruskin » October 31st, 2014, 10:20 am

GreenBow wrote:+Ruskin I enjoyed your article and I found the video both informative and witty. I am not an atheist, but I don't believe in just one god.
You can have billions of other gods besides God and in Biblical terms humans are gods albeit gods with mortal bodies, our spiritual nature is immortal though we survive death as Jesus did. There is only God though as there can only be one infinite eternal source of all that exists. If worship any other god instead of God (including nature/the universe itself or anything like that) this is idol worship and ought be avoided as this is spiritually unhealthy and/or a superstitious practice. Something like atheism is idol worship as well seeing as it places science and human reasoning in Gods place.

I don't support the way of science in the same terms as the rest of atheist minds. I am not a supporter of the big bang theory and the theory of evolution.
But we know the big bang and evolution happened because we have physical evidence for them. You can't choose to believe something that differs from what we know these things aren't up for grabs, the question of God is however.

Vijaydevani
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by Vijaydevani » October 31st, 2014, 10:49 am

GreenBow wrote:+Ruskin I enjoyed your article and I found the video both informative and witty. I am not an atheist, but I don't believe in just one god. I don't support the way of science in the same terms as the rest of atheist minds. I am not a supporter of the big bang theory and the theory of evolution.

Now this is the reason why I say that religion is in direct conflict with science. Quotidian, too bad you are on vacation. Otherwise, you would understand why I said so.

-- Updated October 31st, 2014, 10:50 am to add the following --

FYI, even your pope says that evolution is a valid theory. Chew on that for a while.

-- Updated October 31st, 2014, 10:52 am to add the following --
Vijaydevani wrote:
GreenBow wrote:+Ruskin I enjoyed your article and I found the video both informative and witty. I am not an atheist, but I don't believe in just one god. I don't support the way of science in the same terms as the rest of atheist minds. I am not a supporter of the big bang theory and the theory of evolution.

Now this is the reason why I say that religion is in direct conflict with science. Quotidian, too bad you are on vacation. Otherwise, you would understand why I said so.

-- Updated October 31st, 2014, 10:50 am to add the following --

FYI, even your pope says that evolution is a valid theory. Chew on that for a while.
Unless you think he does not know what he is talking about. In which case, you need to consider why you made him the pope in the first place.
A little knowledge is a religious thing.

PhillipS
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Re: Logically, nothing should exist.

Post by PhillipS » November 1st, 2014, 6:58 pm

GreenBow wrote:The simple fact that anything exist is impossible. Even the theory of the big bang is not true by asking, Where did it come from? God? if so, where did God come from? The deeper one goes in thought the more impossible it is
It is logically simpler for nothing , rather than something, to exist. But the universe does exist! It's origin is the Big Bang. But you deny the Big Bang because, to justify it, leads to an infinite regress. I.e. "God made the Big Bang, but who made God", and so on. Yet, there are other ways of looking at this. One is that God has always existed, as put forward elsewhere in this thread. The other is that the Big Bang arose from nothing, through a quantum fluctuation, as per Hawking. Quantum theory allows for this. The Big Bang becomes the uncaused cause. Then, if there is a God, He could have come into existence at the Big Bang, along with the Universe, space and time, the laws of physics and the properties of matter and energy. This addresses the logical puzzle as to who made God; and it avoids the logical difficulty of God having always existed (I.e. If He always existed, why did He wait so long to create the universe?).

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