Proof of God

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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energyG0d
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Re: Proof of God

Post by energyG0d » June 24th, 2018, 4:05 pm

My theory that if God does exist that God is a manifestation collective energy for energy cannot be destroyed or created only transformed into another form.

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Thinking critical
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Re: Proof of God

Post by Thinking critical » June 25th, 2018, 7:31 am

energyG0d wrote:
June 24th, 2018, 4:05 pm
My theory that if God does exist that God is a manifestation collective energy for energy cannot be destroyed or created only transformed into another form.
I agree that god is a manifestation of energy........as in neurological energy, a manifestation of the mind. As for thermodynamics, this laws refers to the energy created in the Big Bang, in other words.......all energy was created at a single point in time and the amount of energy in our Universe does not increase or reduce.
So if god is a manifestation collective energy based on the first law of thermodynamics, then god too was created in the Big Bang.
This cocky little cognitive contortionist will straighten you right out

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Newme
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Re: Proof of God

Post by Newme » June 26th, 2018, 6:13 pm

Thinking critical wrote:
June 25th, 2018, 7:31 am
energyG0d wrote:
June 24th, 2018, 4:05 pm
My theory that if God does exist that God is a manifestation collective energy for energy cannot be destroyed or created only transformed into another form.
I agree that god is a manifestation of energy........as in neurological energy, a manifestation of the mind. As for thermodynamics, this laws refers to the energy created in the Big Bang, in other words.......all energy was created at a single point in time and the amount of energy in our Universe does not increase or reduce.
So if god is a manifestation collective energy based on the first law of thermodynamics, then god too was created in the Big Bang.
Aristotle influenced the way God was seen as Creator except he used the name, Prime Mover. God is also defined as Intelligent Design.
https://youtu.be/kkGeOWYOFoA

Really, God is a 3-letter word that has countless interpretations- about 1,000 in the bible. Each person - religious or not - has their own ideas. It’s personal. “The kingdom (realm) of God is within you.”

Notice God is represented as encompassed by the shape of a brain.

Image

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LuckyR
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Re: Proof of God

Post by LuckyR » June 27th, 2018, 1:30 am

Is there any evidence that Michelangelo ever saw the shape of a brain?
"As usual... it depends."

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Greta
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Re: Proof of God

Post by Greta » June 27th, 2018, 1:39 am

I'm feeling all Westworld-y again ... anyone up for positing God as the clever part of the bicameral mind or maybe that we are mere passengers, meat puppets whose strings are pulled by our "core directives"? :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxN5ShX896E

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Re: Proof of God

Post by Belindi » June 27th, 2018, 5:01 am

Greta, I submit that introspection is one of the special attributes of humans which have enabled humans to adapt and prosper. As for God, I think that whether it is a clever idea or not depends upon whether or not the idea of and trust in God is enabling. My criterion for "enabling", "prosper", and "clever" is life as opposed to death.

Many ideas about God now tend towards death not life.I believe that ideas about the nature of God should harmonise both physics and ethics. It follows that the world view of physics will naturally show the way to ethics of biological life. I hope!

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Thinking critical
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Re: Proof of God

Post by Thinking critical » June 27th, 2018, 7:28 am

Newme wrote:
June 26th, 2018, 6:13 pm

It’s personal. “The kingdom (realm) of God is within you.”

Image
To those who except god into their lives this is very true.
This cocky little cognitive contortionist will straighten you right out

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Greta
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Re: Proof of God

Post by Greta » June 27th, 2018, 10:19 pm

Belindi wrote:
June 27th, 2018, 5:01 am
Greta, I submit that introspection is one of the special attributes of humans which have enabled humans to adapt and prosper. As for God, I think that whether it is a clever idea or not depends upon whether or not the idea of and trust in God is enabling. My criterion for "enabling", "prosper", and "clever" is life as opposed to death.

Many ideas about God now tend towards death not life. I believe that ideas about the nature of God should harmonise both physics and ethics. It follows that the world view of physics will naturally show the way to ethics of biological life. I hope!
Nothing to disagree with there, Belinda. Given that we can't know how a believer would have turned out had they not believed, or vice versa, I find it all easiest to put the whole shabang down to individual temperament. Some people are attracted to the spiritual aspects, or ethical, or dogmatic, physical, chemical, biological or cosmic aspects. Personally, I'm attracted to the cosmic side because it is most of reality, yet weirdly distant and elusive.

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Newme
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Re: Proof of God

Post by Newme » July 3rd, 2018, 10:29 pm

LuckyR wrote:
June 27th, 2018, 1:30 am
Is there any evidence that Michelangelo ever saw the shape of a brain?
https://study.com/academy/lesson/michel ... raphy.html

“Renaissance artist Michelangelo (1475-1564) studied cadavers by candlelight in a dark morgue -- enduring the smell of rotting flesh -- in order to better understand bone and sinew and muscle.” https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main ... ekey=12491

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Re: Proof of God

Post by Newme » July 3rd, 2018, 10:36 pm

Thinking critical wrote:
June 27th, 2018, 7:28 am
Newme wrote:
June 26th, 2018, 6:13 pm

It’s personal. “The kingdom (realm) of God is within you.”

Image
To those who except god into their lives this is very true.
Actually, no, most people I know who claim to believe in God are similar to Atheists in that they define God as an external being. Most reject the idea of the experience of God being within, despite it being axiomatic and despite it being taught in Buddhism (which influenced Jesus) and the bible...

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”
-Luke 17:2”-21

Where else would you experience God or anything else?
Too bad that so many avoid their own psych-ology.
That’s probably largely the cause of many problems.

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LuckyR
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Re: Proof of God

Post by LuckyR » July 4th, 2018, 2:24 am

Newme wrote:
July 3rd, 2018, 10:29 pm
LuckyR wrote:
June 27th, 2018, 1:30 am
Is there any evidence that Michelangelo ever saw the shape of a brain?
https://study.com/academy/lesson/michel ... raphy.html

“Renaissance artist Michelangelo (1475-1564) studied cadavers by candlelight in a dark morgue -- enduring the smell of rotting flesh -- in order to better understand bone and sinew and muscle.” https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main ... ekey=12491
Well I guess it is possible that he did, since he studied cadavers, though studying sinew and muscle does not require sawing the skull in half.
"As usual... it depends."

Belindi
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Re: Proof of God

Post by Belindi » July 4th, 2018, 4:03 am

Newme wrote:
July 3rd, 2018, 10:36 pm
Thinking critical wrote:
June 27th, 2018, 7:28 am

To those who except god into their lives this is very true.
Actually, no, most people I know who claim to believe in God are similar to Atheists in that they define God as an external being. Most reject the idea of the experience of God being within, despite it being axiomatic and despite it being taught in Buddhism (which influenced Jesus) and the bible...

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”
-Luke 17:2”-21

Where else would you experience God or anything else?
Too bad that so many avoid their own psych-ology.
That’s probably largely the cause of many problems.
But Luke said "the kingdom of God is within you" .Luke did not " God is within you".
Luke is saying that believing Jews are the kingdom of God. For Luke, Judaism was the kingdom of God, and Judaism was nothing unless internalised.

However I do agree that experience of God is subjective. However it is to be regretted that believers often don't bring reason to bear upon their belief.

Some believers don't even bring ordinary human kindness to bear upon their belief. Some atheists do show ordinary human kindness.

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Re: Proof of God

Post by Belindi » July 4th, 2018, 4:08 am

Greta, not I because I keep forgetting what the bicameral mind is and have to go and look it up.

EnergyGod wrote:
My theory that if God does exist that God is a manifestation collective energy for energy cannot be destroyed or created only transformed into another form.
A pantheist then!

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Newme
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Re: Proof of God

Post by Newme » July 4th, 2018, 10:34 am

Belindi wrote:
July 4th, 2018, 4:03 am
But Luke said "the kingdom of God is within you" .Luke did not " God is within you".
Luke is saying that believing Jews are the kingdom of God. For Luke, Judaism was the kingdom of God, and Judaism was nothing unless internalised.
Maybe you ought to tell all of the Christians that Jesus wasn’t talking to them - only to those who abided by the law of Moses. In the Torah, DEATH was the punishment for cursing or disobeying a parent and contempt of court. Walking too many steps or otherwise breaking the sabbath also received punishment by death, among other offenses. Other crazy laws like using dust as lie detectors for women accused of having affairs. You’re trying to say that Jesus saw the kingdom of God only in people abiding by such insane immoral laws?? If you read the gospels, you realize how often Jesus condemns such ridiculous, evil laws.

Moreover if Jesus meant tangible, observable “believing Jews” were the kingdom of God, then why would he have said, “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, lo here or lo there” before saying, “beyold, the kingdom of God is within you”?

Buddhism had been preached in the Middle East for about 400 years before Jesus. References of wise men of the East also suggest an appreciation for eastern ideas. Buddhism taught the obvious: your spiritual experiences are within you - don’t be fooled by someone external pretending to be Buddha/God. Jesus taught this universal truth that applies not only to a particular fanatical religious group (Judaism) but to all humanity.

And again, psych-ology is study of the soul. To deny or ignore that is the ultimate ignor-ance.

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Newme
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Re: Proof of God

Post by Newme » July 4th, 2018, 11:23 am

To clarify that even people with crazy laws, the kingdom of God is within because it is the way we all experience God... And also to point out why Jesus meant “within” rather than, as some argue, “among/amidst”...

Some suggest Jesus meant “among you” when Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you, because he was speaking to Pharisees who he called hypocrites etc. And some say, the kingdom of God is not within people like the Pharisees, but that is incorrect. The kingdom of God is within ALL. Just not all realize it and are in tune within. And Jesus used his exchanges with Pharisees as opportunities to teach universal principles applicable to all. When Pharisees asked who is my neighbor, & Jesus basically said love everyone you meet, Jesus was not saying, “you Pharisees are sure loving guys!”...but he was saying “Love one another.” When he said, “the kingdom of God is within you” he knew that the Pharisees & others all had it within them, even if they hadn’t realized, explored or magnified it yet.

It has been suggested that Jesus was referring to himself as God among you - but when addressed as GOoD master, Jesus corrected him by saying, “Why callest thou me GOoD, none is GOoD, save one - that is God.” It doesn’t say “amidst you” nor “among you” for good reason. It makes no sense to first explain that the kingdom of God is not observable & that nobody can point to it... & then state “Tada! Here I am - as you observe me in your midst.”

Children tend to think in concrete terms, which is why putting a blanket between a child & parent makes the child think the parent disappeared. Eventually the child comes to realize that when a parent seems to disappear- it is only the child’s perception, not reality. Many of us as adults still forget how much our life experiences (thoughts and feelings) come from our own perception. But as I realize it more, I’m able to be more active rather than passive in how I think, feel and act. Such realization has lessened the pain of heartbreak, grief and other emotional suffering.

When I realized that the kingdom (our experience) of God is within, I realized that when it seems God was not responding to me, it is not because God had disappeared, but I had turned away, or others have turned from God (GOoD). Similarly, each night’s darkness doesn’t mean the Sun is gone, but we have, our side of the earth has, turned away from the sun.

“I believe in the sun, even when it's not shining.
I believe in love, even when I don't feel it.
I believe in God, even when He is silent.”


Within me is a whole world to explore! That is the heart of philosophy and psych-ology! Some have explored their kingdom of God within and have given maps or parables - symbols. Others have spelled it out in spiritual stages, and there seems to be some universal truth to such stages yet, we each experience it uniquely. This is partly why I could never prove my experience of God to you and you couldn’t prove yours to me. It’s deeply personal. And yet, we are God’s hands. When a person prays, he is accessing divine powers within them as well as asking for the GOoD in others to help. Sometimes I sense this - subconsciously- and answer another’s prayers, or visa versa. But sometimes we don’t because we ignore those promptings. That is why, ie one’s prayer to find their keys is answered, while a mother’s prayers for her starving child are not. I believe when the kingdom of god comes, it is God, (not pride etc) ruling one’s heart.

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