The Birth of God and the Beginning of the New Dawn

[UniversalAlien]

Are the Atheists right Humans? - Do you create a mythical non-existent being as excuses to dominate and kill each other? What is this being that empowers you to destroy? - This God of destruction, this anti-Human entity? You can hardly blame the Atheists can you? - And see why many so-called Humanists are Atheists.
But I have a problem - I am Agnostic {defined to mean I can neither prove nor disprove an ultimate reason for existence and/or I can neither prove or disprove the existence of an ultimate entity or intelligence ruling the universe}. Maybe I should leave it go at that - for anything I might then conclude will be unconcludable - or will it?

Why does this species, Man, an apparently evolved animal keep affirming the existence of an advanced intelligence even though most Humans refuse to accept their own intelligence? - they use religion as an excuse for their own ineptitude - And blame the other persons God for their stupidity - Stupid and inept - And no god I can imagine will cater to stupid and inept - No he will no longer forgive you - He will tell you you are stupid and inept and blaspheme his very concept every time you use him for Deviltry - And you who kill in God's name are Devils - you know what the Devil is don't you Human? - The Devil, the real God Man worships. Call a spade a spade as they would say.

Still reading this? OK, time for a couple fo quick quotes from another Agnostic {in my opinion}:

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
Albert Einstein-

“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.”
- Albert Einstein

So should we all go home, become Atheists and forget the ugly history of Man abusing himself in the name of God? - Its not that simple - for once the concept of omnipotence, of devine intelligence is awakened in the Human psyche - it is hard to dismiss - some dreams do not just go away no matter how hard you try to stop them - The dream of an almighty and beneficent deity has become so fixated in the Haman mind that all Atheists, communists, or whoever will never make the dream of God end. God is mans dream of omnipotence and immortality - And what weak meaningless species we would be if we were to accept that we were nothing more than a meaningless animal, part of a meaningless evolution without direction of purpose - For a few of you this might be easy - for me it is unacceptable - I will forever dream the impossible dream - that is the destiny of Man - to become as the God of his dreams - Evolution without limits an intelligence that always evolves and knows no end.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God - And how well does Man understand words? The machine you are staring at and the internet you are communicating on is a new testament to Man reaching for the heavens - Let us take heed and not let it fall in ruin like the Tower of Babel of the past.

Let us take stock of History, reappraise it and say:
WELCOME TO THE NEW DAWN !!!

-UniversalAlien
http://universalspacealienpeoplesassoci ... gspot.com/

[Stephen C Pedersen]

This was more poetic homily than anything, which really is why there hasn't been any response to your post. There are so many possibilities for if god does or doesn't exist, and if he does what would he be like. He just don't know, and for those that think they know, if they are honest with themselves, they must still have their doubts. Being here in a philosophy forum we owe it to ourselves to doubt and go wherever reason takes us whether we like it or not. Does bad stuff happen in the world? Of course. That doesn't mean there is or isn't a greater being out there, that just states bad stuff happens.

[UniversalAlien]

Who are we? Why are we here?

Some would tell you it is blind Evolution - no purpose - no meaning .....

Oh yes, so the fittest can survive - Survive for what reason? - No reason the atheists claim - there is no reason - then you
tell me why should the fittest survive.?

So I will give you my hypothesis - To be conscious of a universe we are here to rule - We are here to evolve into the
Gods of our dreams - Man is not an animalistic power struggle - Man is a destiny of an intelligence we are yet to understand.

God did not create Man - Man created, and keeps creating God - As the species Man is a mighty species indeed.

After thousands of years of Hell his will is still strong - He will not give up - No atheist void will break the will of this species
- this species is destined to become one of us - to know the true meaning of hope - As a light that shines forever.






"OPERATION NEW DAWN - THE BEGINNING OF THE FUTURE"
http://universalspacealienpeoplesassoci ... uture.html

[Sy Borg]

UA, you are referring to the Omega Point, as postulated by French Jesuit priest Pierre Teilhard de Chardin early last century.

Poetic homily or not, if we put aside the distraction of Iron Age mythology for a moment, life theoretically does has both the capability and time to become hugely more empowered in every way. Consider the metamorphosis of the biosphere over the last four billion years, and the exponential development of human technology in the last century. There is an observed tendency towards greater complexity in the absence of regular catastrophically entropic events.

Maybe humanity won't be able to pass the upcoming environmental challenges? If not, another planet somewhere will surely go further.

As for striving to the ideal of God, I suggest that the ideals preceded the invention of the entity/entities.

[UniversalAlien]

Greta said:
"I'm an agnostic. All religions are infected with superstition and incredible claims. However, we have too many gaps in our knowledge for science (or anyone) to make definitive statements about the ultimate nature of reality."

True! - Especially true when you consider that in an endlessly evolving universe reality is very tenuous - It passes as soon
as you think about it - The exact nature of reality can not be defined - As it does not exist.




I think therefor I am said Descartes - But is he right? - Or is it rather, I am - therefor I think!

[Stephen C Pedersen]

UA, you are referring to the Omega Point, as postulated by French Jesuit priest Pierre Teilhard de Chardin early last century.

Poetic homily or not, if we put aside the distraction of Iron Age mythology for a moment, life theoretically does has both the capability and time to become hugely more empowered in every way. Consider the metamorphosis of the biosphere over the last four billion years, and the exponential development of human technology in the last century. There is an observed tendency towards greater complexity in the absence of regular catastrophically entropic events.

Maybe humanity won't be able to pass the upcoming environmental challenges? If not, another planet somewhere will surely go further.

As for striving to the ideal of God, I suggest that the ideals preceded the invention of the entity/entities.

There is greater complexity, I agree with you. However, there is catastrophically entropic events too. We are becoming ever better at destroying ourselves an our environment. You point to this yourself. There is another great threat to our humanity other than the education of our youth, and that is the destruction of our environment.

As for technology, that is an odd one isn't it? It seems to scream out for universal brotherhood but has shut us in. Many, instead of engaging with friends just check their update status on facebook or some other social media site. We're being ever more complacent with playing video games by ourselves than with enjoying company with each other. Well, some of us. It has brought us together, but not in an ideal way I believe.

As for the OP, there is always room for the belief in god if there is or isn't one. Thre is always the possibility. [Even with evolution blindly doing what it is, there could have been something that put the whole cosmos into place I feel.

Wouldn't it be hubris to think there is no greater thinking being than us mere homo sapiens? When I look at who, in the US, we elect I have to believe there is a higher intelligence in some form or fashion.

[Sy Borg]

UA, you are referring to the Omega Point, as postulated by French Jesuit priest Pierre Teilhard de Chardin early last century.

Poetic homily or not, if we put aside the distraction of Iron Age mythology for a moment, life theoretically does has both the capability and time to become hugely more empowered in every way. Consider the metamorphosis of the biosphere over the last four billion years, and the exponential development of human technology in the last century. There is an observed tendency towards greater complexity in the absence of regular catastrophically entropic events.

Maybe humanity won't be able to pass the upcoming environmental challenges? If not, another planet somewhere will surely go further.

As for striving to the ideal of God, I suggest that the ideals preceded the invention of the entity/entities.

There is greater complexity, I agree with you. However, there is catastrophically entropic events too. We are becoming ever better at destroying ourselves an our environment. You point to this yourself. There is another great threat to our humanity other than the education of our youth, and that is the destruction of our environment.

Stephen, I'd best revisit an earlier point with clearer emphasis: "There is an observed tendency towards greater complexity in the absence of regular catastrophically entropic events". The key word here is "regular". If catastrophic events occur regularly then complex life could not develop; it would have to keep starting over again. However, major extinction events have thankfully been few and far between, with long periods of relative calm facilitating growth and development in the meantime. It is during one such period of calm that humanity has started to progress at an exponential rate.

Our current situation of resource unsustainability was always going to happen due to our dominance of other species. The Holocene extinction event was always just a matter of time, depending on how responsible, or not, we were with resources. Have humans been too cavalier, or is our situation simply part of an inevitable script like the metamorphosis from caterpillar to moth? Consider this image of Toronto in context: c8.alamy.com/comp/F438C0/toronto-city-s ... F438C0.jpg - the new world jutting out of the old.

If we consider the biosphere as a single living entity, it has surely reached adulthood, having been alive for four billion years and with another one billion years of life on Earth at best. Adult organisms usually feel compelled to breed, and I suggest that the biosphere is probably similarly compelled to reproduce, to spread its seeds - its information - just as its constituents do. Aside from hardy microbes propelled into space by meteor strikes, humans are the only organism so far with potential to spread the biosphere's information to other worlds.

The question may then be whether humanity is going to use up too many resources too quickly, resulting in weak seeds unlikely to travel far or to germinate, just as can happen in nature. Or perhaps everything is on track? We have no way of knowing. Not that it will do the billions who are killed by the changing environment much good. Aside from basic decency and empathy for each other and other species, environmentalism is surely the only sensible approach at this stage.

As for technology, that is an odd one isn't it? It seems to scream out for universal brotherhood but has shut us in. Many, instead of engaging with friends just check their update status on facebook or some other social media site. We're being ever more complacent with playing video games by ourselves than with enjoying company with each other. Well, some of us. It has brought us together, but not in an ideal way I believe.

The nature of our connectivity is changing. As availability increases, quantity of connections increases while the quality necessarily must decrease; one can only devote so much time to so many others. The disquiet many of our generation feel is roughly the same as that of our forebears - getting older in a rapidly changing world that is ever more different to the one in which we grew up, markedly changed from the society in which we were adapted.

What I see is the great superorganism (or organ) of humanity emerging, with individuals increasingly starting to function more like mitochondria - little energy sources increasingly confined to their "cells" (rooms), communicating furiously with other cells via remote networks. We appear to be becoming less free and empowered as individuals, ever more specialised in our capabilities and dependent on others, but we are collectively rapidly becoming more empowered.

As for the OP, there is always room for the belief in god if there is or isn't one. Thre is always the possibility. [Even with evolution blindly doing what it is, there could have been something that put the whole cosmos into place I feel.

Wouldn't it be hubris to think there is no greater thinking being than us mere homo sapiens? When I look at who, in the US, we elect I have to believe there is a higher intelligence in some form or fashion.

Consider this: Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton's brains are amongst the most seven billion most complex and intelligent things in the galaxy for many light years [dramatic pause to allow this to sink in]. The chances of idiot humanity being the ultimate product of this universe's extraordinary workings are surely somewhere between zero and zero :)

The first life form to conquer interstellar space travel will be able to survive and continue evolving for as long as their galaxy is free from collisions with others. The mind boggles as to the potential of such a species and our Jesuit priest may well have been on to something. Maybe God is life's potential, not yet manifest? If not, I expect the difference between intelligent life evolving over billions of years and our conceptions of deities would be moot.

[YIOSTHEOY]

Are the Atheists right Humans? - Do you create a mythical non-existent being as excuses to dominate and kill each other? What is this being that empowers you to destroy? - This God of destruction, this anti-Human entity? You can hardly blame the Atheists can you? - And see why many so-called Humanists are Atheists.
But I have a problem - I am Agnostic {defined to mean I can neither prove nor disprove an ultimate reason for existence and/or I can neither prove or disprove the existence of an ultimate entity or intelligence ruling the universe}. Maybe I should leave it go at that - for anything I might then conclude will be unconcludable - or will it?

Why does this species, Man, an apparently evolved animal keep affirming the existence of an advanced intelligence even though most Humans refuse to accept their own intelligence? - they use religion as an excuse for their own ineptitude - And blame the other persons God for their stupidity - Stupid and inept - And no god I can imagine will cater to stupid and inept - No he will no longer forgive you - He will tell you you are stupid and inept and blaspheme his very concept every time you use him for Deviltry - And you who kill in God's name are Devils - you know what the Devil is don't you Human? - The Devil, the real God Man worships. Call a spade a spade as they would say.

Still reading this? OK, time for a couple fo quick quotes from another Agnostic {in my opinion}:

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
Albert Einstein-

“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.”
- Albert Einstein

So should we all go home, become Atheists and forget the ugly history of Man abusing himself in the name of God? - Its not that simple - for once the concept of omnipotence, of devine intelligence is awakened in the Human psyche - it is hard to dismiss - some dreams do not just go away no matter how hard you try to stop them - The dream of an almighty and beneficent deity has become so fixated in the Haman mind that all Atheists, communists, or whoever will never make the dream of God end. God is mans dream of omnipotence and immortality - And what weak meaningless species we would be if we were to accept that we were nothing more than a meaningless animal, part of a meaningless evolution without direction of purpose - For a few of you this might be easy - for me it is unacceptable - I will forever dream the impossible dream - that is the destiny of Man - to become as the God of his dreams - Evolution without limits an intelligence that always evolves and knows no end.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God - And how well does Man understand words? The machine you are staring at and the internet you are communicating on is a new testament to Man reaching for the heavens - Let us take heed and not let it fall in ruin like the Tower of Babel of the past.

Let us take stock of History, reappraise it and say:
WELCOME TO THE NEW DAWN !!!

-UniversalAlien

Atheism is simply a belief system.

It is a belief system that has embraced the belief that there are no gods.

It cannot prove that there are gods and it cannot prove that there are not gods.

In fact it is not possible for humankind to prove there are not gods simply because we cannot inspect every square inch of the Universe and then declare that having done so we have found no gods anywhere.

If there are gods out there we do not know about it.

And if there are no gods out there then we also do not know about it.

Ergo atheism is simply a belief system in which there are no gods.

Q.E.D.

[Rr6]

UniversalAlien-- “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
Albert Einstein

Ok, I now reread and see Einstien had doubts about our finite, occupied space UniVerse, being infinite. Good, as it would be incorrect to believe our finite, occupied space UniVerse is macro or micro-infinite.

What we have is macro-micro infinite space, of which a part of that infinite space is occupied.

1) Spirit-2, fermions and bosons ergo physical/reality/energy as our observed time/frequency and any aggregate collection thereof.

2) Spirit-3 gravity aka positive shaped occupied space,

3) Spirit-4, dark energy aka negative shaped occupied space.

Defining our finite, occupied space Uni-Verse does not get much simpler and concise, than this above, without losing significant information, that, allows for comprehensive understanding and integral whole. imho

The truth is out there for those who seek it, those who don't and those who scoff at it. imho

r6

[Alec Smart]

UniversalAlien-- “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
Albert Einstein

Ok, I now reread and see Einstien had doubts about our finite, occupied space UniVerse, being infinite. Good, as it would be incorrect to believe our finite, occupied space UniVerse is macro or micro-infinite.

What we have is macro-micro infinite space, of which a part of that infinite space is occupied.

1) Spirit-2, fermions and bosons ergo physical/reality/energy as our observed time/frequency and any aggregate collection thereof.

2) Spirit-3 gravity aka positive shaped occupied space,

3) Spirit-4, dark energy aka negative shaped occupied space.

Defining our finite, occupied space Uni-Verse does not get much simpler and concise, than this above, without losing significant information, that, allows for comprehensive understanding and integral whole. imho

The truth is out there for those who seek it, those who don't and those who scoff at it. imho

r6

This is UniversalAlien's thread and he's provided his own claptrap so your's is surplus to requirements.

[YIOSTHEOY]

UniversalAlien-- “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
Albert Einstein

Ok, I now reread and see Einstien had doubts about our finite, occupied space UniVerse, being infinite. Good, as it would be incorrect to believe our finite, occupied space UniVerse is macro or micro-infinite.

What we have is macro-micro infinite space, of which a part of that infinite space is occupied.

1) Spirit-2, fermions and bosons ergo physical/reality/energy as our observed time/frequency and any aggregate collection thereof.

2) Spirit-3 gravity aka positive shaped occupied space,

3) Spirit-4, dark energy aka negative shaped occupied space.

Defining our finite, occupied space Uni-Verse does not get much simpler and concise, than this above, without losing significant information, that, allows for comprehensive understanding and integral whole. imho

The truth is out there for those who seek it, those who don't and those who scoff at it. imho

r6

This is UniversalAlien's thread and he's provided his own claptrap so your's is surplus to requirements.

I agree with Alec.

[Alec Smart]

I agree with Alec.

In that case I withdraw my remark about Hawking being smarter than you, in the other thread.

[Rr6]

Disagreeing is easier than stealing candy from a baby. Ive disagreed with others many times in many forums.

Actually supplying rational, logical common sense statements, that add too or invalidate my comments as stated, has never been done. You certainly do not have anything along those lines to offer us. Please share when you do, YIO

In regards to my givens, as stated, some can only offer malarkey, others can only offer gibberish, others mockery/ridicule etc...

A few make some attempts at rational logical common sense replies but the usually the just skew of what Ive stated, to mislead their self if not also others off one some irrational tangent.

Some ignore, or read, and remain silent.

The truth is out there for those who seek it, those who do not and those who scoff at it. In regards to my comments, as stated, yo fit into the 2nd and 3rd catagory of previous sentence. :--( Its not easy to fair, rational, logical common sense people on philosophy forums or many other groups, or so that has been my experience.

Lot of ego blockage to rational, logical common sense and truth. imho Lot of regligous and so called education preconditioning that is narrow minded. Lot who just dont have the intellectual integrity to disscuss rationally, logically and with common sense.

Please share when you actually have some rationl, logical, common sense comments that

Ok, I now reread and see Einstien had doubts about our finite, occupied space UniVerse, being infinite. Good, as it would be incorrect to believe our finite, occupied space UniVerse is macro or micro-infinite.
What we have is macro-micro infinite space, of which a part of that infinite space is occupied.
1) Spirit-2, fermions and bosons ergo physical/reality/energy as our observed time/frequency and any aggregate collection thereof.

2) Spirit-3 gravity aka positive shaped occupied space,

3) Spirit-4, dark energy aka negative shaped occupied space.

Defining our finite, occupied space Uni-Verse does not get much simpler and concise, than this above, without losing significant information, that, allows for comprehensive understanding and integral whole. imho

[Alec Smart]

Disagreeing is easier than stealing candy from a baby.

And also much more socially acceptable

In regards to my givens, as stated, some can only offer malarkey, others can only offer gibberish, others mockery/ridicule etc...

Yes, I can see your problem. You've already got more of your own than you know what to do with.

A few make some attempts at rational logical common sense

Well at least you don't have to worry about being accused of that.

Some ignore

We're not all gifted with that level of wisdom.

[YIOSTHEOY]

I agree with Alec.

In that case I withdraw my remark about Hawking being smarter than you, in the other thread.

You can love me or you can hate me but that won't change whether I agree with you when you are right and disagree when you are wrong.