Why did THESE religions survive?

[OntheHorizon]

I would like to discuss the nature of religion from a secular and natural point of view.

If human beings created religions as part of their need to survive in their environment why did it create the ones we have now? Why did Abrahamic religions survive better than other ones did and why do you think it is that it wasn't some other religion instead? Why didn't most of the other spiritual beliefs that humans made survive till this day or become very popular?
Evolution acts upon religions the same way it acts on creatures. Some survive and some don't the ones that survive set the precedent of what the next survivors will be. Why was Abrahamic religions fitter than the rest? I myself can think of ways that I would improve abrahamic religions or point out obvious problems, so why do you think it is that the religions we have now survived and others did not?

I think it could have simply been that Abrahamic Religions were the ones at the center of civilizations greatest times of growth so it benefited from a fertile environment. I also think it survived because of it's tendency to cause and provoke attacks either on others on itself, it's ability to maintain dilemmas in society gave it life, Either a predator forced that religion or a victim was being attacked for having it and the attack compelled them to spread the religion and protect it.

I don't want to discuss claims of whether the religion is true or false or good or bad. I do not want to discuss idea that a god was protecting the religion.

[Grunth]

Certain religious philosophies survive longer because there will always be more dumber people than smart people. Dumb people do not refrain from reproductive sex. Smart people will always be more inclined to consider what they maybe introducing an offspring into - which is a world of more dumb people over smart. And is it smart to want to control dumb people or is it smarter to merely let them think they are controlling you?

[Roel]

I would like to discuss the nature of religion from a secular and natural point of view.

If human beings created religions as part of their need to survive in their environment why did it create the ones we have now? Why did Abrahamic religions survive better than other ones did and why do you think it is that it wasn't some other religion instead? Why didn't most of the other spiritual beliefs that humans made survive till this day or become very popular?
Evolution acts upon religions the same way it acts on creatures. Some survive and some don't the ones that survive set the precedent of what the next survivors will be. Why was Abrahamic religions fitter than the rest? I myself can think of ways that I would improve abrahamic religions or point out obvious problems, so why do you think it is that the religions we have now survived and others did not?

I think it could have simply been that Abrahamic Religions were the ones at the center of civilizations greatest times of growth so it benefited from a fertile environment. I also think it survived because of it's tendency to cause and provoke attacks either on others on itself, it's ability to maintain dilemmas in society gave it life, Either a predator forced that religion or a victim was being attacked for having it and the attack compelled them to spread the religion and protect it.

I don't want to discuss claims of whether the religion is true or false or good or bad. I do not want to discuss idea that a god was protecting the religion.

I think they survived due to the nature of Judaism, you're jewish if your mother is too and the Torah asks people to spread and multiply just like the Quran. Both the Turks trying to exterminate Armenians and Hitler trying to exterminate jews showed how it is practically impossibls to exterminate a complete population... I think it never happened in history... It's way more effective to culturally exterminate people and destroy their whole culture. This was effective among aboriginals in Australia and native Americans in Canada and the US, though nonr of these cultures could be a 100℅ exterminated. By the genetic component of judaism they found an effective way to preserve their religion. There will always be some left in other places to preserve the religion if a group of jews in one place or country is exterminated. This is one of the problem with modern jews emigrating to Israel, to preserve judaism it is not smart to have all jews in just one place. As Vercingetorix showed, if you're all united you're strong as a whole, but you havd one big weakness. If conquered, there is nobody left. Fortunately Celts were preserved on Brittain.

But this is, as you say, how evolution works too. The most wide-spread species have the best chance of survival.

Why christianity and islam too? First, they are offsprings of judaism and as judaism stays preserved, their source stays preserved. Christianity and islam have the same rule as judaism to multiply and christianity had became too big a threat to the Roman empire, so they incorporated it into their state religion. As all later empires were based or inspired by the Roman one, they preserved christianity.

Also, the Abrahamic religions have only one God, so it couldn't be replaced with other Gods from other pantheons like happened in Greek, Roman, Celtic, Germanic, Slavic pagan religions etc.

Another important reason, they're all written down and copied, the Greeks had the Ilias, but it wasn't copied a lot like Qurans and Torahs, which makes it harder to exterminate them.

Islam became very powerful due to the nature of Arabs which learned to survive in tough conditions in the desert as beduins, it also claims that jews and christians forged the real word of God in their holy books and as the Quran is regarded by muslims as the true words of Allah directly descended here on earth, in contrast to jewish prophets and christian apostles inspired by God and wfiting down what God wants in human words, they are perceived as less serior, which makes muslims more certain about their religion and made it easier to get rid of Zoroastrans in Persia etcetera.

[Vijaydevani]

I don't know about other religions so much but unlike Christianity and Islam, Hinduism has never been about conversion. Since you can only be born a Hindu, the conversion is one way. That might also be a factor if there are other religions which are not so concerned with conversion. I know that Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism are also not concerned with conversion (they are essentially offshoots of Hinduism). New age Hinduism however has opened up shop in other countries but this is a relatively new phenomenon. Till very recently, outsiders were not allowed into the fold.

[Burning ghost]

You seem to be viewing this in regard to evolution? If so then you have to factor in luck. One cannot say the dinosaurs were wiped out because they were "unsuccessful", they just couldn't stop an asteroid hitting Earth. The idea of "fittest" in terms of evolution is misused repeatedly as if to mean "better".

Also Christainity adapted and is not anything like it once was. Pagan traditions have been assimilated into Christian tradition in the symbol of the cross, winter festivals, rebirth (spring), etc.,. These were politically motivated by the times.

Adapting is surviving. We could offer theories that monotheism was accepted in terms of national identity. Meaning that it helped create a nation rather than have people worshipping their city god. Monotheism may have helped integrate humanity into larger communities of nationhood.

Also we could propose that the religious structures that survive reflect humanity in some way and that humanity reflects these religions too? Maybe they are balanced enough to allow individuality and community exist in unison?

It could also be that the narratives of these religions are versatile enough to influence society through its changes. The narrative of a human dying for the sins of man and being reborn is an age old narrative that predates Chriatianity.

My view is that they all possess some method that is structured to induce altered states of consciousness through fasting, meditation, sleep dep. etc,. I have tried to address this point extensively elsewhere.

[TSBU]

We didn't "need" religion to survive.

It doesn't have an easy answer, it would be necesary to talk a lot about history, origins, how they grew, etc. Factors like "a mountain" matter.
And I'm bad at history.

Religions are still created every day, but the biggest ones: judaism, christianism, and Islam, are all part of the same tail, and it the origins were created long ago. Religions have been usually a tool to take controll over people and they absorve other religions, so the story changes over time, but they are pretty much the same (The virgin mother etc, that's older, by far, than crhistianism). There are varietys inside the same religion too, for example the pope is not folowed by every christian church. But they keep calling themselves the same religion because they tell moreless the same story, they use the same ancient book, etc. People have more chances of following an idea if more people are following that idea, if that idea has been there for a long time, if they feel that they are going to be accepted for more people when they accept that idea.
It happens in religion, and it happens in everything: when a religion grows enough, it tends to keep that way, and you gain people just by using that name, because that name is famous.

[Spectrum]

All humans are evolved with an inherent and unavoidable existential DOOM that is very subliminally terrible and painful where most cannot find a specific point to scratch the itch or cure the pain.

The fact is for the majority, religions at present are the most effective opiates and balms to soothe those terrible existential pains. Some within the minority will use real opiates, other drugs and other secular approach to deal with the unavoidable existential dilemma.

Despite its falsehoods and illusory God[s] the majority of humans will adopt a religion because religions are the easiest options to ease and get relief over those terrible existential angst.

As to which religion is chosen, that depend on many factors, e.g. aggression of expansion, geography, by birth, personal preferences, etc. The Abrahamic religions at present [will not be in the future] are the most popular because they are the most effective in relieving that terrible existential pain, i.e. just believe and viola! its instant relief with a promise of salvation to eternal life, plus a bonus of virgins for some.

Religions are a critical necessity for the majority AT PRESENT [not future] and will not go until better alternatives are available to deal with that inherent and unavoidable existential dilemma.

A note on Islam. Islam was not founded by the Bedouins. The Bedouins were a low class, looked-down and labelled as 'Wandering Arabs' by Muhammad of the Qureshi city dwellers. Islam was spread by the sword as condoned in the Quran and at present it is spread and sustained on a political basis and exploitation of the ignorant masses. Some turned to Islam for various personal reasons.

Religions will survive for a long time within humanity until we can can find fool-proofs alternative to replace religions to deal with that inherent and unavoidable existential dilemma.

[LuckyR]

I would like to discuss the nature of religion from a secular and natural point of view.

If human beings created religions as part of their need to survive in their environment why did it create the ones we have now? Why did Abrahamic religions survive better than other ones did and why do you think it is that it wasn't some other religion instead? Why didn't most of the other spiritual beliefs that humans made survive till this day or become very popular?
Evolution acts upon religions the same way it acts on creatures. Some survive and some don't the ones that survive set the precedent of what the next survivors will be. Why was Abrahamic religions fitter than the rest? I myself can think of ways that I would improve abrahamic religions or point out obvious problems, so why do you think it is that the religions we have now survived and others did not?

I think it could have simply been that Abrahamic Religions were the ones at the center of civilizations greatest times of growth so it benefited from a fertile environment. I also think it survived because of it's tendency to cause and provoke attacks either on others on itself, it's ability to maintain dilemmas in society gave it life, Either a predator forced that religion or a victim was being attacked for having it and the attack compelled them to spread the religion and protect it.

I don't want to discuss claims of whether the religion is true or false or good or bad. I do not want to discuss idea that a god was protecting the religion.

In this context it is difficult to separate the religious from the cultural. There is not 100% correlation, but from a practical standpoint, if a nation-state populated with an ethnicity that subscribes to a particular religion persists, it makes sense that many aspects of that culture, in this case: religion, would also persist.

[Nick_A]

I would like to discuss the nature of religion from a secular and natural point of view.

If human beings created religions as part of their need to survive in their environment why did it create the ones we have now? Why did Abrahamic religions survive better than other ones did and why do you think it is that it wasn't some other religion instead? Why didn't most of the other spiritual beliefs that humans made survive till this day or become very popular?
Evolution acts upon religions the same way it acts on creatures. Some survive and some don't the ones that survive set the precedent of what the next survivors will be. Why was Abrahamic religions fitter than the rest? I myself can think of ways that I would improve abrahamic religions or point out obvious problems, so why do you think it is that the religions we have now survived and others did not?

I think it could have simply been that Abrahamic Religions were the ones at the center of civilizations greatest times of growth so it benefited from a fertile environment. I also think it survived because of it's tendency to cause and provoke attacks either on others on itself, it's ability to maintain dilemmas in society gave it life, Either a predator forced that religion or a victim was being attacked for having it and the attack compelled them to spread the religion and protect it.

I don't want to discuss claims of whether the religion is true or false or good or bad. I do not want to discuss idea that a god was protecting the religion.

What if the essence of religion enters the world as a conscious teaching? It persists as an esoteric school furthering Man's conscious evolution through esoteric or inner practices. The outer or exoteric devolution changes in accordance with social life and reflects the same quality as society. Society wants to "improve" on religion from a societal perspective. That is in accordance with the devolution of the essence of religion.

[Fooloso4]

OntheHorizon:

If human beings created religions as part of their need to survive in their environment why did it create the ones we have now?

A questionable assumption.

Why did Abrahamic religions survive better than other ones did and why do you think it is that it wasn't some other religion instead?

They are some other religion. Abraham would not recognize any current day incarnation of religion as his own. The same would have been true two thousand years ago.

Evolution acts upon religions the same way it acts on creatures.

Cultural evolution and biological evolution are two different things.

Why was Abrahamic religions fitter than the rest?

Here is one way in which cultural biological evolution differ. It is not simply a matter of these religions being fit for the environment but of their changing the environment so that it is fit for the religion. Take, for example, Constantine’s decision to make Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire. With Judaism we find an alliance between the powerful nations of Israel and Judea. Islam is fundamentally a political religion. It survived because the Islamic nations were politically powerful. Of course, history is far more complex than this sketch.

[Dark Matter]

The power of any idea lies, not in its certainty or truth, but rather in the vividness of its human appeal.

[Grunth]

The 'power' of certain ideas, as evaluated merely on their longevity therefore their survival, can be due to the survival of powerless whole cultures of people.

In other words, the weakness of people can allow silly ideas to survive for as long as there are generations of silly and philosophically 'weak' (flakey) people.

Longevity of something doesn't therefore make that something automatically somehow great.

[Chosen-one]

Why was Abrahamic religions fitter than the rest? I

I do not think Abrahamic religions are fitter than rest of religions. If you look at history, Islam and Christianity are conquerors, they invade nation and region and convert other to there religion. Islam conquered the Middle east, some Asia, some Africa. Christianity conquered most of the world, European colonizing. they converted many people. Christianity and Islam were aggressive converting people and conquering them. Jewish were not converting people, they lost many of their numbers. You can not call people conquering people fitter. To be call fit you need to survive bad condition, when conquered how fit were the people. when wining or conquering, fit is not need, how you do at bad situation define you. e.g. when conquered. Jew were conquered they lost there number but they never all summit to conquer.

The most fittest religion would be hinduism . 800 years of Islam rules, 200 years of British, Christianity rule. Some Hindu did convert , however majority stay the same. Europe was convert to Christianity in few years of rules, completely. Middle east, convert to Islam in few years, completely. But most Indian remain Hindu. So that is fitness. Also hinduism does not convert other people. (only new movement does, most hindu do not)

[Renee]

Original poster: very good question.

Monotheistic religions had a feature which gave absolute power to a "governor of god" on earth, to the secular king of a nation. Feudalistic lines of power and the military / economic base the system had, strongly favoured an absolute ruler from which all power derived. Both from heaven (from God) to the king, and from the king to his underlings.

This Christian ideal (all power derives from god) was developed on the Jewish tradition of the "covenant", or contract. Something of value, given or promised, for something of value, given or promised, in return. The king gave land to his vassals, who promised him taxes and military support. The vassals had their own vassals.

In the previous political / economic era of slave-keeping societies, both "democratic" and despotic, the lines of command of wealth, economic power and military alliances were not based on religion. In feudal times, the religion strongly supported these societal "glues". This is one strong feature why Christianity, Judaism and Islam survived.

Another feature was the elevation of the serfs to human status. It was first Jesus who made all men and women equal, in the eye of the God. Priorly, faith generally claimed that if you were born rich and powerful, you continued being that after death, no questions asked; and if you were born a poor, nothing sap, there was no talk even what happened to you after you died. You were a nobody, in life, and a nobody, literally, in the afterlife.

Jesus gave equal rights to heaven to all humankind. This was his hugest spiritual invention. People gobbled up his promises like hot cakes. This made him and his religion popular.

So there was Christianity, with its strengthening, congealing power support for helping the establishment maintain a status quo, and Christianity at the same time gave hope and a reason to exist for all, which made it easier for the underlings to accept the system (of Christian faith) as it were.

So, double whammy: the ruling class enjoyed "divine" approval and protection of the status quo of the system, and the masses went happily along with it, as they got their plate full (of the promise of a fully fulfilling afterlife).

In comparison, polytheistic religions were a mess, there was no organization, and they offered no symbolic or metaphorical support to an organized system in the secular, real world, which could battle the advantages of the Christian/Feudal system. Polytheistic religions lacked a unified behaviour code, lacked the blessing by the gods to honour strategically important and advantageous social behaviour and social structures. Compassion was fully lacking in polytheistic religions. No reward system existed in them, they offered no promises. They were a reflection of the real world, simply mirroring real world events and behaviour.

Christianity, on the other hand, demanded behavioural compliance, and living with, and the ensuing effects of the compliance was both easy and lucrative to all parties concerned.