Why Are Indulgences Seen As Bad In Some Religions?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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TigerNinja
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Why Are Indulgences Seen As Bad In Some Religions?

Post by TigerNinja »

Some religions see indulgences such as wine or sex, as immoral, unless with proper reason, for example, sex is only bad if it is for pleasure, some say, but if it is to conceive a baby, it is fine. Even in some out of religion examples, such beliefs are widely held, but I have yet to learn the reasoning behind it. Generally, indulgences are a way of making the most of one's life and enjoying it, whereas in many cases, it is seen as something negative. For some Puritan's almost all forms of fun are temptations set by the Devil, but then does that necessarily imply that they are bad? Some, like me, would say that indulgences are a resource that we must all take advantage of, as life is too short to waste without enjoyment. Some may say that indulgences are bad as they show your weakness to temptation, and are addictive, bringing you into an endless cycle of loss of control over your life. What do you think?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
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LuckyR
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Re: Why Are Indulgences Seen As Bad In Some Religions?

Post by LuckyR »

TigerNinja wrote:Some religions see indulgences such as wine or sex, as immoral, unless with proper reason, for example, sex is only bad if it is for pleasure, some say, but if it is to conceive a baby, it is fine. Even in some out of religion examples, such beliefs are widely held, but I have yet to learn the reasoning behind it. Generally, indulgences are a way of making the most of one's life and enjoying it, whereas in many cases, it is seen as something negative. For some Puritan's almost all forms of fun are temptations set by the Devil, but then does that necessarily imply that they are bad? Some, like me, would say that indulgences are a resource that we must all take advantage of, as life is too short to waste without enjoyment. Some may say that indulgences are bad as they show your weakness to temptation, and are addictive, bringing you into an endless cycle of loss of control over your life. What do you think?
What do I think? I think the same thing that everyone else does, archaic ideas of "purity" have extremely tenuous traces of validity and are mostly of historical interest.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Why Are Indulgences Seen As Bad In Some Religions?

Post by Alias »

That was confusing for a minute. In the RCC of the middle ages, indulgences were the forgiveness of sins in exchange for money. A cynical practice that I'm quite sure exists in various forms in various other religions.

What you mean is self-indulgence, or pleasures of the flesh.
Different religions have different attitudes toward different forms of pleasure. Some are okay with eating and drinking, but very strict about sex; some are lax about sex, but disapprove of hoarding wealth or seeking attention. It all depends on the philosophy of life behind a belief system.
for example, sex is only bad if it is for pleasure, some say, but if it is to conceive a baby, it is fine
That was just St Paul, a very repressed guy, and the reason catholic priests still aren't allowed to marry. He figured women, and romance and all that enjoyable frivolity around human reproduction distracted men from the pursuit of heaven. He also believed, as did later saints and Christian scholars, that the enjoyment of life made people less devout, less eager to repent and feel like **** about themselves, which is bad for church attendance and tithing. The ascetic Christian ethic is all about doing life-long penance for original sin... which is to say, renouncing our animal nature and aspiring to pure spirit.
Of course, this didn't stop the cardinals wearing silk and velvet, eating lobster in Friday, stoking the finest vintage wines and having expensive mistresses. But there were plenty of monastic orders, both male and female, dedicated to self-denial, prayer, contemplation and service.
Some may say that indulgences are bad as they show your weakness to temptation, and are addictive, bringing you into an endless cycle of loss of control over your life. What do you think?
This happens quite a lot. With and without religion.

How about a middle road: Enjoy yourself, but don't neglect you responsibilities or go overboard.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
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Carol
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Re: Why Are Indulgences Seen As Bad In Some Religions?

Post by Carol »

"Some may say that indulgences are bad as they show your weakness to temptation, and are addictive, bringing you into an endless cycle of loss of control over your life. What do you think?"

"...renouncing our animal nature and aspiring to pure spirit."

What we think is important or unimportant might depend on what age we are and our levels of different hormones. I think we have many good reasons for organizing our society with family order and for emphasizing the values of self-control, and it is much easier for me to be philosophical about this in my later years when hormones are not driving me to reproduce, and when I feel filled with life, instead of empty and needy.

If the old thinking is to be faulted, it should be faulted for the lack of knowledge of animals and the natural reasons for self-control and family order.

I prefer Eastern philosophies for explanations of desirable human behavior, involving much self-control. The American consciousness set by Christian religions may be unfortunate because of the superstitious nature of Christian mythology that is highly dependent on using supernatural, evil beings such as Satan and demons to make their explanation of life and morals.

My answer to the question is self-indulgence is seen as bad because we have a very high potential and some think it is much better to reach for our high potential than to be slaves to our impulses.
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Re: Why Are Indulgences Seen As Bad In Some Religions?

Post by Renee »

I find the Christian and Muslim religions completely hypocritical on this issue.

They forbid indulgences on Earth in this life, in order to gain admission into a life of complete, unabashed, super-hedonistic joy, pleasure and bliss in the afterlife.

I mean, they have their reasoned response to this, but in the end, you can only earn infinite joy and happiness in the afterlife by resisting temptation in this life.

Life is not a training ground, but an obstacle course, if you ask a religion-follower.
Ignorance is power.
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