Philosophical heckling

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Fooloso4
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Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Philosophical heckling

Post by Fooloso4 »

DM:
Interesting. Even after I excused myself from further postings because this is too far off the subject matter of this thread, people continue to "heckle" because I happen to have different beliefs than they do.

Interesting indeed considering that you were the one who brought up morality, “victicrats”, Obama, and claimed that secularism is “dangerous to society and civilization", but when I respond to questions about grounds of morality and evolution you accuse me of heckling? Yes, I responded because you happen to have different beliefs than I do, but a discussion of those differences on a forum dedicated to discussing such differences is not heckling.


You can play the victim or be the "victicrat" and refuse to answer that is up to you, but I raised these points because I think they are of philosophical interest. It really is not about us versus you.
Dark Matter
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Joined: August 18th, 2016, 11:29 am
Favorite Philosopher: Paul Tillich

Re: Philosophical heckling

Post by Dark Matter »

I suggested a reason why religious hecklers might feel justified; atheists took it from there. If you want to continue, start another thread. I will be happy to oblige.

P.S.
One tactic of a victicrat is to take things out of context, in this case removing the quotes around the word "heckle," to make it appear the word was used in a literal way.
Fooloso4
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Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Philosophical heckling

Post by Fooloso4 »

Dm:

One tactic of a victicrat is to take things out of context in this case, removing the quotes around the word "heckle," to make it appear the word was used in a literal way.

People misuse quotation marks all the time. I am not aware of any standard usage that indicates that one is not being literal. The closest that I know of is to indicate that the word has been used by others in a questionable manner. I took it as a way of emphasizing what is at issue.


How about adding words to an actual quote, does that count? I asked if you had done that deliberately when you quoted me, and you did not respond. Was that the tactic of a victicrat or should I say "victicrat"? But then you might think I am not using the word literally when I am actually using it to emphasize your use of the word.
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Sy Borg
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Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Philosophical heckling

Post by Sy Borg »

Fooloso4 wrote:DM:
Interesting. Even after I excused myself from further postings because this is too far off the subject matter of this thread, people continue to "heckle" because I happen to have different beliefs than they do.
... you were the one who brought up morality, “victicrats”, Obama, and claimed that secularism is “dangerous to society and civilization"
Also, DM's first post on the thread was 'Cool. it's called "karma".' - as though atheists have always victimised Christians and now this is payback.

History of course suggests that Christians have largely been in control the whole time so claims of theistic victimisation at the hands of atheists is game playing, pretending to hold the moral high ground.
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Aristocles
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Re: Philosophical heckling

Post by Aristocles »

Renee wrote:I had been to secular Humanist meetings which had been constantly interrupted by fundamentalist religionists heckling the speakers.

How come it does not happen in reverse? Secular thinkers going to church, and interrupting the liturgy with objections, or pointing out self-contradictions in bible quotes at fundamentalist evangelical Sunday congregations?

Fair is fair. If the seculars can't have peace from the religious right, it ought to be also the other way.
Maybe a middle ground, like a Unitarian Universalist church would be an answer? if not, at least an exception to the extreme church circumstance above...
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Willow
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Joined: February 20th, 2017, 12:47 pm

Re: Philosophical heckling

Post by Willow »

Greta wrote:
Renee wrote:
We do not live in, and have never lived in, a secular society; theism faded somewhat but remains easily the dominant force in society. With about 80% of elected politicians in the US being religious, theists have continued to control world affairs for decades. Whether it's Confucianism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or Taoism, religion maintains control over public policy and socially. So theists heckling in a secular gathering would broadly be considered to simply be reasonable dissent, while atheists heckling in churches would be considered to be disgustingly disrespectful for failing to respect their worship.

This is ultimately about perceived value as a human being. Consider the reason why theists would not broadly be criticised for disrespect for their heckling and you will see how the game is played. To many theists, secularists are barely even human. To them we are nothing - dirt to be blown away at the time of judgement. I don't think secular society appreciates the extent to which they are dehumanised and objectified by theistic cabals in power.
Interesting, I've been thinking a lot about what sort of things influence our social standing lately and also been wondering how much of a role religion still plays, even for those of us who have no beliefs. My theory is that its probably a wider net than just explicit lack of interest in religion; there are many ways we can fail to conform to societal mores (that may have religious roots): and lose percieved value as a human being in the process.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Philosophical heckling

Post by Sy Borg »

Willow wrote:
Greta wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
Interesting, I've been thinking a lot about what sort of things influence our social standing lately and also been wondering how much of a role religion still plays, even for those of us who have no beliefs. My theory is that its probably a wider net than just explicit lack of interest in religion; there are many ways we can fail to conform to societal mores (that may have religious roots): and lose perceived value as a human being in the process.
In many nations, the "appropriate" religious display behaviour is expected and directly impacts on a person's status and commonly perceived value. I think you alluded to the fact that behaviours that transgress the religious mores attract social sanctions along with disbelief. There is always tension between those seeking to impose their rules on others ad their targets.
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