Steve3007 wrote:Greta (post #10):
Meanwhile, we can at least say that the brain is not the sole repository of neurons; there's gut neurons and sensory neurons all over the body. That may not be the end of it either. Microbial studies suggest that simple sensing is possible with equivalent systems than nervous systems (
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... MC3971467/). I suspect sensing runs deeper than we have so far learned.
Yes, this relates to one of the "hobby horses" that I've had for a long time - the idea that hard black-and-white divisions are generally imposed on Nature artificially by us and as such are arbitrary. The distinction between the brain and the rest of the body is one such. We love to understand by compartmentalizing. And we reflect that technique of understanding in the way that we design things. The CPU of a computer, unlike the brain, really is an entirely distinct entity. I think the fact that living things have evolves in a way that is fundamentally different from this is another example of the deep differences between a process of evolution and a forward-planned process of design.
The advantage of design over evolution is that unnecessary or vestigial features can be removed quickly.
I agree that classifications are to a fair extent the result of human perceptual and organisational biases. I find the brain's formation in gestation especially poetic. The blastocyst has three layers - the inside layer will become the internal organs, the thin mesoderm in the middle will become bones, ligaments and muscles, and the outer layer will become skin, nerves and the brain. So while we think of the brain as "inside" it's actually part of our outside layer - the outside brought inside, which I find a poetic reflection of the mind as "images in our heads".
Another productive area that defies boundaries is the grey area between what is a colony and what is an organism (or organ, for that matter), with interesting gradations between colonies and organisms. Stromatolites and corals to eusocial insects like ants and bees to pyrosomes (animal / colony of clones operating in concert with their neighbours) to sea sponges to jellyfish, which significantly have the first nerve nets. While we are each open to the idea of single cells having equivalent sensing capabilities in lieu of a nervous system, no doubt the evolution of ganglia and neurons brought sensing to a new level again.
Steve3007 wrote:So I see us as smarter than our brains in the same way as the solar system is more massive than the Sun, although the Sun is more massive than all other material in its system combined, even though there is more additional material than we once realised.
And there is no clear point in space where we can objectively say "here ends the sun and here beings empty space". Likewise for the whole Solar System. One of the Voyager probes was recently deemed to have left the Solar System and entered interstellar space, but the criteria for deciding that was true were created by us for our purposes.
This harks back to the boundaries issue. Our own bodies' bounds are similarly fuzzy, with magnetic and biological fields around us and a strong sense of personal space, but we largely, and pragmatically, use a boundary between "self" and "not self" based on the nervous system - "will it hurt?".
Steve3007 wrote:One of "those" thoughts occurs to me. In a sense, the gut is akin to a scaled up version of a mitochondrion in a cell - a discrete energy source in an interdependent relationship with the host organism. As with mitochondria, the DNA of our gut microflora differs from that of the organism.
Yes, I guess we already say that the individual cells of our body are part of a coalition. So it makes sense to also say that about various entire body systems, like the gut. The best theory we have about the origins of mitochondria is that a coalition was formed between organisms with different "skills" billions of years ago, in the single celled world. The same is true of the coming together of different cells to form multi-celled organisms. It's a world of mutually beneficial coalitions, at all scales. All, ultimately, driven by those selfish genes.
I am struck by the elegance of the process (not just genes but group selection and epigenetics) Mitochondria were once discrete, free swimming organisms. One or some somehow found a safe place inside of another microbe ("different skills") which in turn benefitted from the mitochondria's energy output. Based on the rough timelines of eukaryote evolution, the Great Oxygenation Event may well have been the killer of free mitochondria, leaving only the protected eukaryotic pairs.
Steve3007 wrote:from the increasingly hostile elements, environmental toxins and crowding, a power source of one "cell" (both meanings apply) of the internet. The "mitochondriac" will be ever more dependent upon its electronic communications (PC/TV v transmitter chemicals) to stay in touch with the host, and will rely on home deliveries of resources rather than brave the problems of the outside world. South Korea looks closest so far to this idea, but Beijing's issues are forcing people indoors.
Interesting idea. Since the definition of a fractal is similarity across scale, and since we appear to be talking about the formations of coalitions on all different scales, this sounds reasonable.
Now we have The Great Carbon Event, which is poised to kill off numerous unprotected/vulnerable humans, leaving only those protected in their "cells" to carry on (those in Beijing will relate). The remaining humans would perhaps be dedicated to mentally-based pursuits in lieu of outdoor activities, so intellectual advances may accelerate through ever greater and deeper interconnection, no doubts with increasing body/machine integration.
While one human brain can be superseded by many in some respects, but the latter is chaotic and haphazard due to our communications failing to overcome the opacity of other minds. With AI integration and organisation, multiple human brains could be connected to allow for shared perspectives, which could then be organised into a single multi-faceted perspective, pulling all those minds together to form a meta mind that is much more than the sum of its human brains.