Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Post by Belindi »

Lark_Truth wrote:
---would calling upon the Lord's name or God's name in vain at all still be considered blasphemous?
Is that an 'ought' question, or an 'is' question?
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Post by Lark_Truth »

It would be an "is" question Belindi.

When God gives a commandment, it is good advice to follow it.
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

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Belindi wrote:Lark_Truth wrote:
---would calling upon the Lord's name or God's name in vain at all still be considered blasphemous?
Is that an 'ought' question, or an 'is' question?

1. Who would consider it blasphemous to call upon the Lord's name in vain? (Is an 'is' question which can be answered by for instance questionnaires)

2. Ought you to consider it blasphemous to call upon the Lord's name in vain? (Is an 'ought' question which can be answered for instance by a questionnaire, or alternatively by appeal to a political, legal, or moral authority.)

-- Updated April 2nd, 2017, 3:31 pm to add the following --

Lark_Truth, do you yourself consider it blasphemous to call upon the lord's name in vain? If so, why
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Post by Eduk »

2. Ought you to consider it blasphemous to call upon the Lord's name in vain? (Is an 'ought' question which can be answered for instance by a questionnaire, or alternatively by appeal to a political, legal, or moral authority.)
Actually it can't be answered by the examples you give. Authority fallacy and appeal to majority fallacy make it so that while not necessarily wrong it's not necessarily correct either.
For my money I would prefer testable theories. I commit blasphemy every single day (more or less) and thus far I haven't been struck down by any angry Gods. This is only anecdotal of course so still not proof. But it's a well tested theory to my knowledge.
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Post by Belindi »

Eduk wrote:
2. Ought you to consider it blasphemous to call upon the Lord's name in vain? (Is an 'ought' question which can be answered for instance by a questionnaire, or alternatively by appeal to a political, legal, or moral authority.)
Actually it can't be answered by the examples you give. Authority fallacy and appeal to majority fallacy make it so that while not necessarily wrong it's not necessarily correct either.
For my money I would prefer testable theories. I commit blasphemy every single day (more or less) and thus far I haven't been struck down by any angry Gods. This is only anecdotal of course so still not proof. But it's a well tested theory to my knowledge.

Yes but you can still hand in your opinion , and argue in support of the legal, political, or religious authority. No opinion is ever absolutely right or wrong including opinions about ethics or aesthetics. There would be no search for wisdom if everybody stuck to testable theories like logical positivists.
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

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Belindi wrote:Lark_Truth, do you yourself consider it blasphemous to call upon the lord's name in vain? If so, why?
What is blasphemy? A brief internet search defines it as: "the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk"
As has been discussed on this sight, taking upon the Lord's name in vain is calling upon Him when you don't actually mean it. You are calling upon His divine power and assistance without any real authority, and from what I usually see today when people take the Lord's name in vain is to d___ something in a brief moment or in an exclamation of surprise or amazement as in "Oh my ___!" Some - myself included - would call that treading God's holy name like dirt. Common, filthy, lowly, etc.
God is a divine being of great power and authority. He created our world, He gave us life, He loves us, He wants us to be with Him in heaven, He is everything. As we owe him so much, we also owe God a good deal of respect and reverence that comes with Him being our Divine Heavenly Father. He gave the commandment to Moses in the Old Testament of the Holy Bible to not take the Lord's name in vain.
Going off of all that, I would say yes, I consider it blasphemous to call upon the Lord's name in vain.
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

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Lark_Truth wrote:
What is blasphemy? A brief internet search defines it as: "the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk"
I note that you believe that taking the Lord's name in vain is blasphemy. So do I.

People who blaspheme for whatever reason, take the Lord's name in vain, must surely be unafraid of any punishment for so doing, don't you think?

I presume that you yourself don't blaspheme. Do you yourself refrain from blaspheming because

1. You don't want the other elders to disapprove of you? or

2. You love God and dont want to hurt God's feelings? or

3. You are afraid God will punish you? or

4. You love your church and its doctrine, and would feel unhappy if you infringed it?or

5. You feel yourself to be a respectable person and respectable people don't blaspheme?

These aren't trivial questions. Some of the questions reveal a more mature attitude to morality. I am not getting at you, Lark_Truth I am trying to fit what I think is a quite trivial thing, blasphemy, into a scheme that covers much more important moral questions.
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Post by Lark_Truth »

Belindi wrote:People who blaspheme for whatever reason, take the Lord's name in vain, must surely be unafraid of any punishment for so doing, don't you think?
Yes I do think, Belindi. That is a very good point, as God does not appear to be a control-freak who punishes someone for stepping a just a little out of line. I would say that He allows people to make their own choices - such as saying His Holy name in vain - and if they do something wrong, He allows them to discover for themselves just what was wrong about their actions and feel sorry for it, then repent and change their behavior.
Belindi wrote:I presume that you yourself don't blaspheme. Do you yourself refrain from blaspheming because

1. You don't want the other elders to disapprove of you? or

2. You love God and dont want to hurt God's feelings? or

3. You are afraid God will punish you? or

4. You love your church and its doctrine, and would feel unhappy if you infringed it?or

5. You feel yourself to be a respectable person and respectable people don't blaspheme?.
I don't blaspheme, correct, and I do it because of answers: 2, 4, & 5, and maybe also because I feel that taking God's name in vain is wrong and that I want to stay in the right just because it feels good.

-- Updated April 5th, 2017, 9:35 am to add the following --

Let's keep up the teamwork!
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

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Lark_Truth wrote:
Belindi wrote:People who blaspheme for whatever reason, take the Lord's name in vain, must surely be unafraid of any punishment for so doing, don't you think?
Yes I do think, Belindi. That is a very good point, as God does not appear to be a control-freak who punishes someone for stepping a just a little out of line. I would say that He allows people to make their own choices - such as saying His Holy name in vain - and if they do something wrong, He allows them to discover for themselves just what was wrong about their actions and feel sorry for it, then repent and change their behavior.
Belindi wrote:I presume that you yourself don't blaspheme. Do you yourself refrain from blaspheming because

1. You don't want the other elders to disapprove of you? or

2. You love God and dont want to hurt God's feelings? or

3. You are afraid God will punish you? or

4. You love your church and its doctrine, and would feel unhappy if you infringed it?or

5. You feel yourself to be a respectable person and respectable people don't blaspheme?.
I don't blaspheme, correct, and I do it because of answers: 2, 4, & 5, and maybe also because I feel that taking God's name in vain is wrong and that I want to stay in the right just because it feels good.

-- Updated April 5th, 2017, 9:35 am to add the following --

Let's keep up the teamwork!
I appreciate your encouragement.

I put 2. in the top position for mature morality, on condition that 'God' represents the aspiration of the disinterested individual. It's vital that selflessness is part of the approach to God.

I don't know if you realise it, Lark_Truth, but my questions are easily translateable into secular motives. There are secular substitutes for "elders", "God", "blasphemy",and "church".
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Post by Lark_Truth »

Belindi wrote:I don't know if you realise it, Lark_Truth, but my questions are easily translateable into secular motives. There are secular substitutes for "elders", "God", "blasphemy",and "church".

:? I am not sure what you mean Belindi. Can you please elaborate?
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

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Question: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Answer: some do because what people consider the Lord is an impossible, non-existent entity of a concept to them. The Lord simply does not exist in their world, and they firmly believe that. In fact, even the wording of the topic title sounds childish and condescending to them.

These people, the atheists, consider blaspheming a lost crime. Believed out of existence. No more a credible offence. Saying (in full) Jesus F. Christ is the same as saying (in full) go f yourself. It is impolite, rude, and obnoxious, but nothing to do with God or the Lord, as God the Lord is a concept ill thought up, it is non-existent, null and void.
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Post by Steve3007 »

I've never previously heard anyone claim that Jesus's middle initial is 'F'. I've only ever heard people say "Jesus H Christ". I always assumed the 'H' stands for Harold and that he was named after his father. ("Our father who art in heaven. Harold be thy name...").
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Post by Belindi »

Lark_Truth, you asked me to explain a little further. Here are my question agains:

1. You don't want the other elders to disapprove of you? or

2. You love God and dont want to hurt God's feelings? or

3. You are afraid God will punish you? or

4. You love your church and its doctrine, and would feel unhappy if you infringed it?or

5. You feel yourself to be a respectable person and respectable people don't blaspheme?

The secular version:

1. You don't want the people who matter most to you to disapprove of you? or

2. You love the good and don't want to hurt what you love? or

3. You are afraid that if you act contrary to tradition you will come to harm? or

4. You love the moral system you are accustomed to , and would be unhappy if you infringed it? or

5. You feel yourself to be a respectable person, and respectable people don't blaspheme.
**********************

The most mature motive is 2.
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Post by Lark_Truth »

1, 2, 4, & 5, #2 especially. I agree with you that it is the most mature out of all of them, though #4 I think is a close second. Hurting that which I love has always really been heartbreaking. For instance, I am a fantasy writer (unpublished as of yet), and sometimes I am faced with the option of killing off a character, major or minor, and it's sad. :(
I don't see #3, respecting the Lord's name, as a tradition and I would think that it would be foolish to think of it as such. Traditions should be fun and help people to come together as friends and family, not to squeeze people between a rock and a hard place if they break it.

Why do you not take the Lord's name in vain, Belindi?
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Re: Why do people take the Lord's name in vain?

Post by Belindi »

Lark_Truth wrote:
Why do you not take the Lord's name in vain, Belindi?
I occasionally do and I don't like to hear myself do it because it's a sign that I am reacting to a silly trend. As I said previously blasphemy is a comparatively trivial fault.
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