Evil's War against Religions

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Post Reply
Iapetus
Posts: 402
Joined: January 5th, 2015, 6:41 pm
Location: Strasbourg, France

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Iapetus »

Reply to Lark_Truth:
Well yes I do have a specific concept of what I haven't detailed, but I haven't told you guys any of that because I don't want to try and force any of my own beliefs on you. What I mean by an "evil being" is a person or entity who has power that they use selfishly for their own gains and to bring mankind down into the depths of misery and despair (to put it poetically). Such an evil being would try to pervert the truth and replace some of it with falsehoods and half-truths that seem like the truth, but it isn't. It would nudge a person down a path where they would eventually almost entirely loose their freedom of choice as they become only able to choose that which is ultimately bad.
Does this help?
I am not sure that helps. You have told us – very vaguely – what you believe but with no attempt to explain why. You are, of course, entitled to believe whatever you want but this, in itself, has no persuasive power. This is why, in my last post, I asked why the concept of ‘supreme being of evil’ should have any more significance than ‘flying spaghetti monster’, ‘Santa Claus’ or ‘unicorns’. You haven’t answered. Do you have convincing evidence, justification or explanation for such a belief? If not, then why might you expect others to accept such a claim?

Moreover, I am confused by your terminology. In your original post, you refer to an ‘evil being’. Could this refer to one or many humans who you interpret as evil, or are you refering to a non-human entity? Subsequently, however, you have refered to a ‘supreme being of evil’. Is this the same thing or something different? In your original post you seemed to equate the concept with “Apophis, Loki, Gaea, Satan/Lucifer/The Devil, etc”. There are difficulties with this. Apophis and Loki were regarded as physical, tangible entities who were portrayed as such in Egyptian and Norse illustration. Gaea, in Greek mythology, was regarded as the ancestral mother of all life and, as such, I am unsure why you included her in the list of ‘evil entities’. Are you suggesting that Satan, Lucifer and/or The Devil are physical entities? If so, then how can you demonstrate this? If not, then what, exactly, are you claiming? That they are supernatural, whatever that may mean? If so, then what is their relationship to your concept of God?

I am still not aware that you have defined ‘evil’, though I deduce from your description of ‘evil beings’ that it has to do with:

- power used selfishly for personal gains.
- bringing mankind down into the depths of misery and despair.
- perverting truth and replacing some of it with falsehoods and half-truths that seem like the truth, but it isn't.
- making people lose freedom of choice as they become only able to choose that which is ultimately bad.

These are all things of which ‘ordinary’ humans are capable of doing, intentionally or otherwise. If you use terms such as ‘truth’ and ‘bad’, then you need to explain to me who determines what is truth and what is not and what is bad and what is not.
Philosch
Posts: 429
Joined: July 25th, 2012, 3:42 pm

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Philosch »

Um.... this is Evil (Mr. Evil to you) just putting my two cents in. My war on religions is simple, they are all outdated, superstitious and dangerous belief systems who's time has come and gone. Once upon a time they served a valuable service but they have been abused and now serve no function that can't be accounted for by more grown up belief systems that are much less dangerous and much less capable of reeking havoc on the world due to unwarranted superstitions. I dare say (of course I am Evil) that if we don't relegate religions to the scrap heap of history completely in the next several hundred years the human race will become extinct before their time.

Ah who am I kidding, I'm Evil and I can tell you I'm not at war with religions at all, they are my most cherished instruments!
User avatar
Lark_Truth
Posts: 212
Joined: December 24th, 2016, 11:51 am
Favorite Philosopher: Brandon Sanderson

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Lark_Truth »

Philosch wrote:Um.... this is Evil (Mr. Evil to you) just putting my two cents in. My war on religions is simple, they are all outdated, superstitious and dangerous belief systems who's time has come and gone. Once upon a time they served a valuable service but they have been abused and now serve no function that can't be accounted for by more grown up belief systems that are much less dangerous and much less capable of reeking havoc on the world due to unwarranted superstitions. I dare say (of course I am Evil) that if we don't relegate religions to the scrap heap of history completely in the next several hundred years the human race will become extinct before their time.

Ah who am I kidding, I'm Evil and I can tell you I'm not at war with religions at all, they are my most cherished instruments!
Consider this is true, Philosch:
An evil being who is against god and religion who is trying to get as many people as possible to deny the existence of God and true religion on the earth would be very happy to hear that there are some people that he has been able to successfully influence someone or a group of people that there is no god, because if we believe that there is no God and deny His existance, then we are worse than dead.
Now whether this is actually true is just what we are here to debate. So if you are going to post on this topic, I advise that you pretend that you actually believe in God and religion and state your theories from that point of view while also giving out excellent nuggets of knowledge such as: "Religions are the evil guy's most cherished instruments!" That actually is a very good point that I can wholly agree with you that it is possible. Could a supreme evil being be twisting religion and prophecy to suit his own ends to bring to pass the eternal damnation of mankind and halt the progression of the true word of God and Salvation?
In all, very possible.

-- Updated March 9th, 2017, 11:36 am to add the following --

And very scary! :shock: :twisted:
Truth is Power. Reason is Wisdom. Intelligence is Experience. Hope is Bright!
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Steve3007 »

I still don't know why this evil person wants me to be worse than dead. Was he abused as a child?
Fooloso4
Posts: 3601
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Fooloso4 »

Lark_Truth:
Consider this is true, Philosch:
An evil being who is against god and religion who is trying to get as many people as possible to deny the existence of God and true religion on the earth would be very happy to hear that there are some people that he has been able to successfully influence someone or a group of people that there is no god, because if we believe that there is no God and deny His existance, then we are worse than dead. Now whether this is actually true is just what we are here to debate.
Whether what is true? a)What you instruct him to consider as true is true - that there is such an evil being intent on doing this? b)That people who deny God’s existence do so as a result of the work of this evil being? c) Or that such people are worse than dead?

a) What is the point of considering it true if he/we are to debate whether it is true?
b) As with ‘a’ what is the point of considering it true if he/we are to debate whether it is true?
c) This is a completely different question than the topic question.

Those of us here who do not believe that God exists might be under the influence of an evil being without knowing it, but either we also do not know that this is a condition worse than death or it is not a condition worse than death. Either our condition is so bad that we do not even know how bad it is or you do not know what you are talking about. Perhaps your time here will prove to be beneficial and you will come away with a less cloistered and provincial view of things.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Steve3007 »

If somebody tells me that my present condition is worse than being dead, since I know something about my present condition (reasonably pleasant with a glass of wine and "Meet the Fockers" on TV) and I know nothing about what my condition will be after death, I can only conclude that they are telling me something about what death will be like. They are telling me that it will be even better than this. And since this is not too bad, death must be ok. That's nice to know.
Philosch
Posts: 429
Joined: July 25th, 2012, 3:42 pm

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Philosch »

Lark_Truth wrote:
Philosch wrote:Um.... this is Evil (Mr. Evil to you) just putting my two cents in. My war on religions is simple, they are all outdated, superstitious and dangerous belief systems who's time has come and gone. Once upon a time they served a valuable service but they have been abused and now serve no function that can't be accounted for by more grown up belief systems that are much less dangerous and much less capable of reeking havoc on the world due to unwarranted superstitions. I dare say (of course I am Evil) that if we don't relegate religions to the scrap heap of history completely in the next several hundred years the human race will become extinct before their time.

Ah who am I kidding, I'm Evil and I can tell you I'm not at war with religions at all, they are my most cherished instruments!
Consider this is true, Philosch:
An evil being who is against god and religion who is trying to get as many people as possible to deny the existence of God and true religion on the earth would be very happy to hear that there are some people that he has been able to successfully influence someone or a group of people that there is no god, because if we believe that there is no God and deny His existance, then we are worse than dead.
Now whether this is actually true is just what we are here to debate. So if you are going to post on this topic, I advise that you pretend that you actually believe in God and religion and state your theories from that point of view while also giving out excellent nuggets of knowledge such as: "Religions are the evil guy's most cherished instruments!" That actually is a very good point that I can wholly agree with you that it is possible. Could a supreme evil being be twisting religion and prophecy to suit his own ends to bring to pass the eternal damnation of mankind and halt the progression of the true word of God and Salvation?
In all, very possible.

-- Updated March 9th, 2017, 11:36 am to add the following --

And very scary! :shock: :twisted:
There are no supernatural beings of evil and light, there are only men and their deeds both good and bad!

Well that's the beauty of religions, they create self reinforcing delusion. Here's a belief....it's taken as fact from words on a page. A group of men ascribe supernatural authority to the words. Then they setup and institution who's job it is to interpret and at the same time protect itself. What better way to do that then to include in the words....something like this: "Anyone who rejects these beliefs is evil. There will be many who come along and attempt to dissuade you of these beliefs and they are evil. Furthermore we are the only ones who can interpret these words" You are stuck now with all that's happened in the world before and up till now. Spanish inquisition, Caliphates, Salem Witch trials you name it, all manner of despicable evil done at the hands of people with these infallible beliefs....and any rational person questioning them can immediately be dismissed out of hand because of the nicely included warning right in the text. Particularly Christianity and Islam but there are others. I'm an equal opportunity religion basher.
User avatar
Lark_Truth
Posts: 212
Joined: December 24th, 2016, 11:51 am
Favorite Philosopher: Brandon Sanderson

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Lark_Truth »

Why are you posting in this thread?
Truth is Power. Reason is Wisdom. Intelligence is Experience. Hope is Bright!
Iapetus
Posts: 402
Joined: January 5th, 2015, 6:41 pm
Location: Strasbourg, France

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Iapetus »

Reply to Lark_Truth:
Why are you posting in this thread?
Why are you not responding to very relevant questions which are being asked of you?
User avatar
Lark_Truth
Posts: 212
Joined: December 24th, 2016, 11:51 am
Favorite Philosopher: Brandon Sanderson

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Lark_Truth »

Okay, sorry, I will stick to the topic from now on.

Philosch, it is very true that mortal men are able to commit horrendous atrocities behind the excuse of religion and the will of God. I fully agree with you that it is foul and vile the things that people did and still do. It still continues today, and it is horrible. It says in the bible to "love your neighbor" but many people didn't follow that and instead allowed their greed and their pride to get in the way. The monsters! :evil:

Philosch, do you believe in good and evil?
Truth is Power. Reason is Wisdom. Intelligence is Experience. Hope is Bright!
Iapetus
Posts: 402
Joined: January 5th, 2015, 6:41 pm
Location: Strasbourg, France

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Iapetus »

Reply to Lark_Truth:

What about my questions (post #15) and those of Fooloso4 (post #19)?
User avatar
Lark_Truth
Posts: 212
Joined: December 24th, 2016, 11:51 am
Favorite Philosopher: Brandon Sanderson

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Lark_Truth »

Perhaps we need to define just what is evil before we continue to debate on the existence of an evil being. So, fellow philosophers, what is the definition of evil?

Mine is this: Evil is that which is done for one's own gain in selfishness, pride, lust, and to bring others down.
Truth is Power. Reason is Wisdom. Intelligence is Experience. Hope is Bright!
Dark Matter
Posts: 1366
Joined: August 18th, 2016, 11:29 am
Favorite Philosopher: Paul Tillich

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Dark Matter »

Evil is the privatisation of the good.
Philosch
Posts: 429
Joined: July 25th, 2012, 3:42 pm

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Philosch »

Lark_Truth wrote:

Philosch, do you believe in good and evil?
Finally a reasonable and important question...my answer is No, not in any absolute sense. There can not be in any absolute sense. There are actions that are of great value to the well being of an individual, group or to the world and so on and there are actions that are detrimental to the same. But it's always a matter of perspective. The universe is a violent, cold and desolate place on the whole with tiny islands of sublime beauty, but I would not say it was good nor evil, rather it is the way it is. I think things can be good or bad based on a perspective but the most widely held definition of evil I don't believe in at all. To make a claim that something or someone is pure evil in an absolute sense for instance would require a claim to knowledge by the person or group making the claim that they just could not have unless they were all knowing omniscient beings themselves. And no written document can have or grant such authority either, for all documents are written by men and the claim of divine inspiration is the seed of the misguided judgment that dooms religions to fail until they shed their claims to divine authority. But even saying that I wouldn't call religions evil, I merely say they are no longer conducive to the progression of human beings.
Iapetus
Posts: 402
Joined: January 5th, 2015, 6:41 pm
Location: Strasbourg, France

Re: Evil's War against Religions

Post by Iapetus »

Reply to Lark_Truth:

I have been trying, LT, to keep to the point of your original question and every time I try to clarify what, precisely, you are asking, you dodge the point. I shall give it one more go. You asked:
Would an evil being do everything in their power to halt the advance of religions that have the capability to stop its plans for the world?
I asked whether this ‘evil being’ was human in origin or supernatural. It makes a difference and I have explained how and why but you haven’t answered.

I asked why your concept of ‘evil being’ was any more significant than any other imaginary idea, such as ‘flying spaghetti monster’, ‘Santa Claus’ or ‘unicorns’. You haven’t answered.

Steve pointed out the difficulty of responding to your question if you are unable to supply information about the likely motives of the ‘evil being’. You haven’t answered.

If you define things according to ideas of truth and badness, then you need to tell us who is the authority for making such judgements. You haven’t done so. Fooloso4 asked questions related to this in post #19. You did not respond.

I pushed you to a definition of ‘evil’ and you have offered:
Evil is that which is done for one's own gain in selfishness, pride, lust, and to bring others down.
The problem with this is that your concept of selfishness, pride and lust is unlikely to coincide with that of mine or other people. In other words, your concept of evil is your own and may well not match that of others. Are you able to suggest an objective measure for evil?

Out of interest I looked up a few definitions. These two seem to be fairly standard:

"Profound immorality and wickedness, especially when regarded as a supernatural force".

"Embodying or associated with the forces of the devil".

Here, again, we encounter problems. Who is the judge of “profound immorality and wickedness”? I have already asked a similar question and you haven’t answered. So do you regard it as a supernatural force or not? I have asked this before and you didn’t answer.

Do you believe it is associated with the forces of the devil? This, too, I have asked previously and you haven’t answered.

I don’t understand how you expect anybody to give you a reasoned response to a concept about which you will not reveal any significant detail. To illustrate my point, let me suggest a couple of parallel questions.

If a unicorn settled in my garden, am I likely to gain significant benefits, beyond those of ‘visitor attraction’?

How could anybody give a reasoned answer without precise information about the characteristics of the unicorn? Particularly when we don’t even know that unicorns exist? If the questioner offered some characteristics, how are we to know whether or not s/he is making it up as they go along?

How do you answer a child who asks how Santa Claus manages to visit so many houses at Christmas?

Does the likelihood that Santa doesn’t exist make the answer easier or more difficult?

To sum up; you have kept much of the important information to yourself. Therefore the only person who can really answer your question is … you.
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Religion, Theism and Mythology”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021