Why did God make the universe at all?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Zombocalypse
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Zombocalypse »

It is my fundamental belief that God created everything because He was bored out of His mind.

As a religious man, I believe in God. And I believe that He created us in His own image and likeness. Because of that, we can assume that as much as we are like Him, He is like us. With the exception of incredible power, God is just like us, with emotions and a gnawing capacity to get bored.
RuleOnu
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by RuleOnu »

Spraticus wrote:Ok, I did say that God actualized the world for "His Glory", from the Christian perspective. Maybe, I could have been clearer regarding the "intrinsic beauty and wonder of the world" in relation to God's Glory irrespective of atheistic reasoning.
I went on to say that the beauty and wonder of the world is but a part of God's Glory. Our ability to understand and appreciate the world (universe) in relation to the nature of God, if God's nature can be defined. God's Glory also intends value and purpose which "is" a non factor in atheistic material or naturalistic reasoning. Yes atheist/rejectionist or nonbelievers can identify something as beautiful, or wondrous, but not within context of God's Glory, it's purpose, value and design. Atheist/rejectionist, or nonbelievers can't answer the why something is beautiful or wondrous, whereby beauty and wonder can only be a matter of relative, subjective opinion. Whereas the Christian understands why something is beautiful and wondrous as a product of God's Glory, value and purpose. As I stated beauty and wonder are part of God's Glory. Other aspects can be our free will and ability to love and reason. None of these aspects can be explained by atheistic materialism, or naturalism.
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Now, I'm speaking from the Christian perspective wherein you'd be hard pressed to find a definitive definition for "God's Glory" except by experience, such as beauty and wonder, and the fact this is what scripture tells us by way of explanation.
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I also have a more scientific and philosophic explanation which I'll save for my own thread once I'm allowed. I can pretty much guarantee it will be of interest.
One of the downsides of this, like other similar sites, is that, at every opportunity religious believers will butt in to preach and preen. I don't want a sermon about how superior religious people are, (they aren't), I want them to explain why they think their god decided to make a universe. Things could have been so perfectly and simply divine if they just left it all alone.

Your claim to be able to explain free will, beauty etc., is empty since it depends on an unsupportable premise, the existence of a god.[/quote]

Oh no, no no! I'm not falling for that trap. You asked specifically, "Why did God create the universe, at all". I don't know if an atheist/rejectionist or nonbeliever can answer that question. At no time did I "preach or preen", but answered it as a Christian from a Christian obligation to use the Bible as a guide. I explained that Gods Glory is difficult to define without experiencing God, albeit clearly stated biblically. I'm sure had I preached, the very capable moderator would have rejected my post!

I am more than capable of presenting rational logical arguments for the existence of a "god" and further argue that "god" is represented in Christianity as the one true God. But, this thread didn't ask that! Instead, posited the question from the perspective, or a priori assumption, that God exists and now you're moving the goalposts. Your question firmly implies theism and further implies a theistic response.

I answered your query from the Christian theist perspective, as I stated, which is the only possible summation from your original post, unless those with other theist ideologies wish to participate, which I don't see (likely since they can't adequately argue their position in much the same way as atheist aren't able).

I don't understand how you can posit a question about God then complain about an answer referencing God you asked an answer for?

I would really be interested in exactly what is your idea of "perfection". Do you actually "believe" perfection exists, and can be ascertained without a model, or standard, of perfection? Or, are you the arbituer of perfection?
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Present awareness
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Present awareness »

It may be more accurate to ask "why is there something, rather then nothing"? The original question assumes the existence of a God. It also assumes that the universe was "made" rather then always existing.

Regardless of any ideas a person may have as to why there are things and no-things, it will always come down to speculation and personal opinion. And opinions vary!
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AndyC
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by AndyC »

God created us because we are here. We exist, entailing that the universe under the construct of reason exists because we do. We can only concern ourselves under this construct, therefore it is plausible to assume the universe was created because of the universe.
Spraticus
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Spraticus »

Present awareness wrote:It may be more accurate to ask "why is there something, rather then nothing"? The original question assumes the existence of a God. It also assumes that the universe was "made" rather then always existing.

Regardless of any ideas a person may have as to why there are things and no-things, it will always come down to speculation and personal opinion. And opinions vary!

In a way that is what I would like to know, but I did also want to know why religious people thought their god might choose to make a universe, given that it is such a messy thing with lots of pointless suffering in its human component and a very long drawn out fading at the end. This is not the same as asking for proofs of god's existence.

That is also not the same as asking them to preach, or make claims of moral or aesthetic superiority which clearly they find very hard. The reasons given seem to be mostly not reasons at all except the idea that god was bored.
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Felix
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Felix »

I did also want to know why religious people thought their god might choose to make a universe, given that it is such a messy thing with lots of pointless suffering in its human component and a very long drawn out fading at the end.


In the case of the Immanent God, He too would experience the mess (as you called it), and the suffering would not be pointless, as it would have a raison-d-etre.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
Spraticus
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Spraticus »

AndyC wrote:God created us because we are here. We exist, entailing that the universe under the construct of reason exists because we do. We can only concern ourselves under this construct, therefore it is plausible to assume the universe was created because of the universe.
For an easy life I accept that the rest of you exist, so yes, "we are here." But I don't see the logical connection between that and a god creating us. You seem to imply that it is a necessary relationship. Good luck with that.

Equally the existence of the universe, while being something I accept, is not something I would try to assert by reason alone, and I certainly wouldn't want to make it logically dependent on my existence.

If I wanted to know how the universe arose I would ask a physicist, but of course I asked a bunch of philosophical believers because I wanted to understand how they perceived the intentions of their gods. I'm not much further forward.
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Felix
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Felix »

If I wanted to know how the universe arose I would ask a physicist, but of course I asked a bunch of philosophical believers because I wanted to understand how they perceived the intentions of their gods. I'm not much further forward.
You'll get no farther with the physicists, they have no definitive answers either. Besides, science cannot tell you why something happened (e.g., why the universe arose), only what and how it apparently happened.

Why create a universe? - Love, Beauty, Play, Joy, etc., and conscious beings to engage in and appreciate all of that, what other reason(s) do you need?
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
Spraticus
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Spraticus »

Felix wrote:
If I wanted to know how the universe arose I would ask a physicist, but of course I asked a bunch of philosophical believers because I wanted to understand how they perceived the intentions of their gods. I'm not much further forward.
You'll get no farther with the physicists, they have no definitive answers either. Besides, science cannot tell you why something happened (e.g., why the universe arose), only what and how it apparently happened.

Why create a universe? - Love, Beauty, Play, Joy, etc., and conscious beings to engage in and appreciate all of that, what other reason(s) do you need?
That makes more sense than most of the answers.

I do know that the physicists don't have an answer, but they don't make one up like the believers do. When something is just a hypothesis they say so.
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Present awareness
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Present awareness »

There are two basic views on how the universe came to be. 1. It has always existed 2. Something we call God, for lack of a better name, created it. A person whom believes in number 2, solves the problem of where the universe came from, but creates a new problem of where God came from. If the universe has always existed, then the question of "why" is pointless because the universe simply "is", "was" and always "will be".
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Spectrum »

Spraticus wrote:Why did God make the universe at all.
..but why make anything at all?
Why not just continue in the bliss of perfection?
First we must acknowledge the realistic point, i.e. it is impossible for a real god to exists in reality.
God is an idea [not even a concept] invented by humans to deal with that inherent unavoidable existential crisis, i.e. the dissonance arising out of the fear of the threat of death and certain mortality.

Because God is a human invented idea, the answer to 'Why did God make the universe at all?' can be justified and answered by theists in any way within the theistic box. The answer can be any thing, i.e. it is God's nature, because God want to do so, to demonstrate God is all powerful, because God nature is creative, etc. blah blah.
Other than the individuals' answers there is the answers from the respective holy texts which is taken as truth within the specific confine of the theistic box.

From Islam [which I am a near-expert] God created the universe as signs and portents [ayatin] to demonstrate his existence [Cosmological Argument] and his omnipotence. 6:99 10:7 and many similar verses.
In addition [side point] Allah created human beings and jinn solely [within the universe] for the purpose that they serve [total subservience] Allah as slaves to please Allah. 51:56. Then Allah will 'toy' with them to paradise or burn them in hellfire.

Wisdom wise we should not give too much attention such as the OP question but rather why God was invented in the first place that is laden with so much evil elements that lead to so much evils, violence and terrible sufferings committed by SOME evil prone believers arising from the critical psychological need to invent a God to be believed.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Spraticus »

Why God was invented is indeed an interesting question, but the point of my original question was to find out what believers thought was their god's motivation. I'm not a believer.
Belindi
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Belindi »

"Why?" questions seek causes.

There is no cause for existence itself . Existence itself, which takes the form of nature, or as some call it, "The Universe" is the cause of itself.

It's only when 'God' is perceived as a huge big Person that He is expected to need causes like the rest of us.
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Dark Matter »

Belindi wrote:"Why?" questions seek causes.

There is no cause for existence itself . Existence itself, which takes the form of nature, or as some call it, "The Universe" is the cause of itself.

It's only when 'God' is perceived as a huge big Person that He is expected to need causes like the rest of us.
That's something I've been saying for a long time.
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Re: Why did God make the universe at all?

Post by Fooloso4 »

One answer that I think is as good as any other is: you wouldn’t understand. If one assumes the existence of an entity with the intelligence necessary to create the world, then one must assume that human intelligence is equal to the task of understanding the actions of that entity if one expects an answer to the question of why God created the universe.

One traditional view is that it is a matter of God’s will. Will stands in contrast to reason. As a matter of will, the question of why God created the universe needs no reason other than it was God’s will. God’s actions do not have to accord with human reason.

Evoking God’s will can thus be seen as a form of skepticism - knowledge of human ignorance. But of course part of the God game is to treat our not knowing as a blank slate upon which we can write whatever we imagine. Poetry (image making) plays a major but often neglected role in theology.
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