"Fear of Death" a Primary Motivator of Religions?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Spectrum
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Re: "Fear of Death" a Primary Motivator of Religions?

Post by Spectrum »

Burning ghost wrote:Spectrum -

"Should" and "should not" are ideological doctrines. You are professing more knowledge than you have any right to claim.
Why not? At present it is ideological based on the theoretical conclusions I have arrived at in my thesis.
It would be nice again to see you make another description of "Existential Crisis". What it is about is subjective ideas of "purpose" and "meaning", and the "value" of life. Existential Crisis is not about "fear of death", it is about lack of understanding and meaning, and coming to terms with our subjective and limited view of ourselves and our world/s.
I told you many times, it is not primarily about "fear of death" though it play a secondary role. What contribute to the resultant of an existential crisis, are the proximate root elements of the "fear of death" neural algorithms in combination with other proximate root elements.
Your description of the existential crisis is too vague as usual, 'too much foreplay and no climax'.
This is most certainly a huge part of the religious questions and experience, and the mainstay of religious investigations. All religions attempt to approach the issue of existential crisis.
Reference to "death" is stems from the foundation of the existential crisis the existential crisis does not spawn forth from fear of death, that is just poor reasoning and deeply bias opinion of religious people in thinking they only turn to religion, or have religious experiences, because they fear death. It is simply untrue and what, if anything, is reported and experienced in religious experience is just as often not fear of death, although some cases have visions of hell others have visions of heaven.
Nah you are wrong in the above. Not all religions focus on the fear of death DIRECTLY and openly. Initially you have insisted the concept of fear of death is not obvious in all religion. I have to prove to you the 'fear of death' is present in all mainstream religions in various degrees, even Judaism and Taoism. As for ALL religions one can trace it to the primal 'fear' of the the threat of premature death at the proximate root levels. What drives religion is not solely 'fear of death' but a resultant existential crisis.
The individual[s] should understand why they are driven to God and religion.
On who's authority? This is not the first nor the second time you've said what people "should" do. It doesn't help your case in the slightest.
Have you been "driven" to God and religion? If so you better express this before dictating what other people who have been driven to God and religion should or should not do.
As I had insisted earlier, WHY NOT.
This is a discussion.
If my theoretical conclusions are proven to be practical then "The individual[s] should ..." for the sake of humanity's well being.
I was once a theist [non-religious] for a long time and turned non-theist upon understanding God is illusory.

Now that religions [especially Abrahamic] are influencing a critical SOME to commit terrible evils and violence, it is time for all individual[s] to understand what God really is and why they are clinging to a God like there is no tomorrow.
I guess we can ask is "death" empirical? Do I have experience of "death" or not? You can then do the reasoning from there.
This is a side point.
Death is an empirical fact and certainty [conditional] because no humans have been observed [empirically[ to have lived more than 150 years old.
Thus the premise 'ALL man are mortal'.
or 'All humans are mortal' as a major premise.

Note Hume had argued such premise like 'ALL man are mortal' is not absolute fact per-se but merely a proposition conditioned by constant conjunction, habits and customs.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
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Burning ghost
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Re: "Fear of Death" a Primary Motivator of Religions?

Post by Burning ghost »

Spectrum -
I told you many times, it is not primarily about "fear of death" though it play a secondary role. What contribute to the resultant of an existential crisis, are the proximate root elements of the "fear of death" neural algorithms in combination with other proximate root elements.
Your description of the existential crisis is too vague as usual, 'too much foreplay and no climax'.
I would argue, and I feel I may not be alone here, that your definition is a whole lot more vague. Interspersing some technical words makes it look more meaningful, but it isn't. You may as well define it as "I dunno." Be serious! "neural algorithms in combination with other proximate root elements", that is gibberish and I am being charitable by not accusing you of purposely trying to bamboozle the reader with jargon of no significance.

I assume you mean something. You have not expressed it, it is much more vague than what we all understand the term to mean.
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Dark Matter
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Re: "Fear of Death" a Primary Motivator of Religions?

Post by Dark Matter »

I hope people are smart enough to realize that saying that the fear of death is the primary motivator of religion is a description of of the human condition and not an argument against religion in any of its forms. If people don't find relief from their angst in religion, they will find it somewhere else — the next new gadget, politics, sex, risk-taking, money, power, philosophy, etc., etc.
Spectrum
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Re: "Fear of Death" a Primary Motivator of Religions?

Post by Spectrum »

Burning ghost wrote:Spectrum -
I told you many times, it is not primarily about "fear of death" though it play a secondary role. What contribute to the resultant of an existential crisis, are the proximate root elements of the "fear of death" neural algorithms in combination with other proximate root elements.
Your description of the existential crisis is too vague as usual, 'too much foreplay and no climax'.
I would argue, and I feel I may not be alone here, that your definition is a whole lot more vague. Interspersing some technical words makes it look more meaningful, but it isn't. You may as well define it as "I dunno." Be serious! "neural algorithms in combination with other proximate root elements", that is gibberish and I am being charitable by not accusing you of purposely trying to bamboozle the reader with jargon of no significance.

I assume you mean something. You have not expressed it, it is much more vague than what we all understand the term to mean.
"neural algorithms in combination with other proximate root elements"
I know what I am talking about, it is you who has to update your knowledge.

I agree there are people of low esteem who would use all sorts of jargon to push their snake oils. Not me, I am very mindful to maintain a high degree of intellectual integrity. I may not have explained in details but what I have presented is not 'bullsh:ting'.

The only term that is perhaps a bit new to many is 'algorithm' which is
  • algorithm = a process or set of rules to be followed in calculations or other problem-solving operations, especially by a computer.
Do a search for 'neural network' & 'algorithm' and you will understand how this concept is critical for the well being of humanity in the future.
If one need to understand how the brain works to create artificial human intelligence, 'neural algorithm' is a critical concept.

Take face recognition for example, this process is represented by a neural algorithm that involve a lot sub-algorithms to enable one to recognize a face. Those involved in artificial intelligence has understood [roughly] the fundamentals of how face recognition works and this is how the technology of face recognition is so common these days.
As for the existential crisis [as with all mental processes] there is a corresponding neural algorithm in place that activate it when the effective stimuli hit its triggers. I have a flowchart for this 'unfortunate' process in the human brain.

What I have not done here is in explaining in detail the whole complex machinery and the elements involved the algorithm that produce the existential crisis and from there how it induced the majority into theism, religions, etc.

I stated your explanation of existential crisis is too vague [lacking] in terms of the critical concepts and principles [ingredients] involved.

What you are good at is merely condemning the ideas of others which is actually hindering your own progress in accumulating knowledge.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
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Burning ghost
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Re: "Fear of Death" a Primary Motivator of Religions?

Post by Burning ghost »

It was not my explanation, it is the common used day-to-day meaning of the term.

You think I am being condemning? Not at all. I want to see your ideas. To date you've shown very little and what you have shown is sparse at best. You seem to want to neurological alter humans brains to stop them doing things you think are bad. That is worthy of my attention for a number of troubling reasons especially as you seem to be basing your ideas on opinions and second hand knowledge of neuroscience.

What you have not done is explain in detail. Correct.
As for the existential crisis [as with all mental processes] there is a corresponding neural algorithm in place that activate it when the effective stimuli hit its triggers. I have a flowchart for this 'unfortunate' process in the human brain.
A flow chart? Show me this "corresponding neural algorithm". That is the kind of thing I want to see please.
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Philosch
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Re: "Fear of Death" a Primary Motivator of Religions?

Post by Philosch »

Dark Matter wrote:I hope people are smart enough to realize that saying that the fear of death is the primary motivator of religion is a description of of the human condition and not an argument against religion in any of its forms. If people don't find relief from their angst in religion, they will find it somewhere else — the next new gadget, politics, sex, risk-taking, money, power, philosophy, etc., etc.
This is well said and I would like to strongly agree in an effort to point out how important questions like this are. The motivations and alternate behaviors can be both destructive and beneficial like anything else and so it is helpful to understand them and their origin in an effort to not only predict but to shape alternate and perhaps necessary forms of relief. One thing I would personally like to see more of in these discussions in general is some dialogue centered around practical implications and applications of what's being argued so you end up with living philosophy that benefits and positively influences our decaying culture. I'm not completely pessimistic on this point and realize the current state of affairs is cyclical, but one of these swings downward coupled with the enormous technological advances in our ability to destroy ourselves may just be our undoing before the wheel turns upward. I believe that philosophy and critical thinking is not regarded high enough by the popular culture and this is a very concerning thing since philosophy has critical roll in psychology and other sciences as well.

-- Updated July 2nd, 2017, 12:26 pm to add the following --
Dark Matter wrote:I hope people are smart enough to realize that saying that the fear of death is the primary motivator of religion is a description of of the human condition and not an argument against religion in any of its forms. If people don't find relief from their angst in religion, they will find it somewhere else — the next new gadget, politics, sex, risk-taking, money, power, philosophy, etc., etc.
This is well said and I would like to strongly agree in an effort to point out how important questions like this are. The motivations and alternate behaviors can be both destructive and beneficial like anything else and so it is helpful to understand them and their origin in an effort to not only predict but to shape alternate and perhaps necessary forms of relief. One thing I would personally like to see more of in these discussions in general is some dialogue centered around practical implications and applications of what's being argued so you end up with living philosophy that benefits and positively influences our decaying culture. I'm not completely pessimistic on this point and realize the current state of affairs is cyclical, but one of these swings downward coupled with the enormous technological advances in our ability to destroy ourselves may just be our undoing before the wheel turns upward. I believe that philosophy and critical thinking is not regarded high enough by the popular culture and this is a very concerning thing since philosophy has critical roll in psychology and other sciences as well.

-- Updated July 2nd, 2017, 12:26 pm to add the following --
Dark Matter wrote:I hope people are smart enough to realize that saying that the fear of death is the primary motivator of religion is a description of of the human condition and not an argument against religion in any of its forms. If people don't find relief from their angst in religion, they will find it somewhere else — the next new gadget, politics, sex, risk-taking, money, power, philosophy, etc., etc.
This is well said and I would like to strongly agree in an effort to point out how important questions like this are. The motivations and alternate behaviors can be both destructive and beneficial like anything else and so it is helpful to understand them and their origin in an effort to not only predict but to shape alternate and perhaps necessary forms of relief. One thing I would personally like to see more of in these discussions in general is some dialogue centered around practical implications and applications of what's being argued so you end up with living philosophy that benefits and positively influences our decaying culture. I'm not completely pessimistic on this point and realize the current state of affairs is cyclical, but one of these swings downward coupled with the enormous technological advances in our ability to destroy ourselves may just be our undoing before the wheel turns upward. I believe that philosophy and critical thinking is not regarded high enough by the popular culture and this is a very concerning thing since philosophy has critical roll in psychology and other sciences as well.

-- Updated July 2nd, 2017, 12:27 pm to add the following --

Dam laptop, sorry for the three-pete post
Woodart
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Re: "Fear of Death" a Primary Motivator of Religions?

Post by Woodart »

Philosch wrote:

I believe that philosophy and critical thinking is not regarded high enough by the popular culture and this is a very concerning thing since philosophy has critical roll in psychology and other sciences as well.
This is well said and very much needed.
Spectrum
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Re: "Fear of Death" a Primary Motivator of Religions?

Post by Spectrum »

Burning ghost wrote:You think I am being condemning? Not at all. I want to see your ideas. To date you've shown very little and what you have shown is sparse at best.
I stated 'condemning' in the sense your counter views are very off base and without depth.
You seem to want to neurological alter humans brains to stop them doing things you think are bad.
Alter? yes. What I am basically proposing is better impulse controls via specific targeted conditioning, e.g. meditations, other repetitive methods and other FOOL-PROOF effective means to rewiring and strengthen those inhibitors, modulators and controls.
You don't think genocide and its related hierarchy of evils is not bad?? It is evil and abominable :twisted: .
My message to those evil people who commit terrible evils and violence in the name of their God and prophet is their primary motivations are all in their brain [it has nothing to do with any God's command]. Change [voluntarily] their brain algorithm [wirings] and they will be good people.
That is worthy of my attention for a number of troubling reasons especially as you seem to be basing your ideas on opinions and second hand knowledge of neuroscience.
Isn't this a hallmark of intelligence and wisdom in establishing new ideas from combination of knowledge from various disciplines?
A flow chart? Show me this "corresponding neural algorithm". That is the kind of thing I want to see please.
Putting ideas in flow charts is my norm.
I mentioned 'flow chart' merely to support my use of the term 'algorithm' and that I am not introducing wishy-washy ideas but rather systematic ones.
At present I am not ready to share my flow charts as I have not 'published' them yet.

-- Updated Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:07 pm to add the following --

@Philosh
Philosh wrote:One thing I would personally like to see more of in these discussions in general is some dialogue centered around practical implications and applications of what's being argued so you end up with living philosophy that benefits and positively influences our decaying culture.
That is my point, note my message throughout my postings. i.e. getting rid [or at least greatly reduce] of the terrible evil from religions, especially from THAT specific Abrahamic religion.

My message to those evil people who commit terrible evils and violence in the name of their God and prophet is their primary motivations are all in their brain [it has nothing to do with any God's command]. Change [voluntarily] their brain algorithm [wirings] and they will be better people.

What I am proposing is already incorporated into Buddhism-core and other Eastern philosophies except they are relying on the black-box methods rather than inside the black-box, i.e. the neurons in the brain and related mind.

I see Philosophy-proper as the 'Conductor of the Symphony of Life' and all other faculties of knowledge are the various sections and instruments of a large symphony. Philosophy is necessary to generate the greater synergy from what we can get in addition to the sum of its parts.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Dark Matter
Posts: 1366
Joined: August 18th, 2016, 11:29 am
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Re: "Fear of Death" a Primary Motivator of Religions?

Post by Dark Matter »

Spectrum wrote:

My message to those evil people who commit terrible evils and violence in the name of their God and prophet is their primary motivations are all in their brain [it has nothing to do with any God's command]. Change [voluntarily] their brain algorithm [wirings] and they will be better people.

What I am proposing is already incorporated into Buddhism-core and other Eastern philosophies except they are relying on the black-box methods rather than inside the black-box, i.e. the neurons in the brain and related mind.

I see Philosophy-proper as the 'Conductor of the Symphony of Life' and all other faculties of knowledge are the various sections and instruments of a large symphony. Philosophy is necessary to generate the greater synergy from what we can get in addition to the sum of its parts.
Said like a true believer. But every true believer proposes what they believe is best.
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