A psychiatrist's solution

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
User avatar
Hereandnow
Posts: 2837
Joined: July 11th, 2012, 9:16 pm
Favorite Philosopher: the moon and the stars

Re: A psychiatrist's solution

Post by Hereandnow »

-0+ wrote:
By asking: Are we really born into suffering?

If you (any of you reading this) believe we are, what is your belief based on? Personal experience? Indoctrination?

Suffering is an internal experience. What can you know about the suffering of others? Anyone (including robots) may complain or otherwise appear to be suffering, but how can you tell if they are genuinely suffering or not?

What do know about your own suffering? Are you actually suffering at this very moment? If you are, are you able focus all your awareness on your suffering and still experience suffering to the same degree? Do you have memories of suffering? How reliable are these memories, especially around the time you were born? How can you tell for sure that you were actually born into suffering? Is it possible you didn't begin to suffer until later in life? When did you start to entertain tragic fantasies?
Ahhh, inquiry gone astray. Look, I know it's easy to throw a question at something. But I won't play. It is a silly game.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: A psychiatrist's solution

Post by Sy Borg »

Hereandnow wrote:The question goes to the tendency we have to dismiss unhappiness as a pathology. Usually, I would admit, this is the case: it is a matter of some unresolved psychosocial issue that gives rise to depression. What about matters of conscience and its sting of guilt? Or, in this case, the terrible revelation that we are "thrown" into a world to suffer, and all of the systems of thought brought to bare upon this business fail completely to redeem, say, the medieval mother watching her children's finger tips turn black with gangrene as a symptom of bubonic plague,while she sees the signs emerging in herself. The point really is this: suffering as a working concept is readily ameliorated simply by belonging to a system of language and culture. That is what language qua language does; it takes the mystery out and replaces it with the certitude and familiarity. But removed from these habits of judgment, we are faced with the sheer "giveness" of suffering. Suffering is a structural part of our Being here, and there is nothing psychiatry can say about this; nor can evolutionary theory (in which I abide, I should add) bring any relief to the question. Indeed science is mute on the matter. This changes the game for humans altogether, for the religion has in this its foundation. The human condition is inherently religious because we suffer and die, and no science can amend this.
To be fair, psychologists are aware that sadness is not pathology unless it interferes sufficiently in a person's life for them to seek treatment.

However, the community at large, lead by the media, increasingly seems to confuse sadness with depression, which much irritates actual depression sufferers. Ideally, melancholia is a natural response to weariness and pressure; it's a retreat with a "do not disturb sign". Like an animal, we slink away to lick our wounds in private. That's the point of westernised meditation as far as I can tell - to take time out to refresh proactively rather than waiting to collapse in a screaming heap.
User avatar
-1-
Posts: 878
Joined: December 1st, 2016, 2:23 am

Re: A psychiatrist's solution

Post by -1- »

Hereandnow wrote:"Doc, Why?....Why are we born to suffer and die?" The psychiatrist struggles with the question, which had really never occurred to her, at least in any serious way. She then falls silent for a bit, finally responding, "I think you think too much."

What is the psychiatrist's problem here? Is she right? Is such a question simply a sign of a psychopathology? Such an unhappy man, he must be ill to worry so.
While I agree with you that the shrink (easier to type than "spycakhiaatyrist, so I stick with shrink no sign of disrespect) has made an inappropriate answer. She was not a philosopher, but realized the underlying true philosophy behind the question: that there is no rhyme or reason to existence, to suffering, to happiness, they are not in the realm of things that happen because of a will or because of a design.

So she could have said this, but the appointment was over, she needed to say something quickly. Instead of saying (which I would have said under the same circumstances), "perfesser, that was one stupid question," she said something less cutting and less lacking in respect, "perfesser, you think too much."

The stupidity of the question came from the regard of it by a (non-religious, rational) mind that already has decided on the (most likely true) assumption that purposeful will in our fates does not exist.

You, Hereandnow, have identified very correctly the milieu (intellectual milieu) in which the question would not have been regarded to be stupid, but valid, but nevertheless just as unanswerable. And that milieu would have been the religious one.
This search engine is powered by Hunger, Thirst, and a desperate need to Mate.
-0+
Posts: 240
Joined: June 19th, 2014, 5:30 pm

Re: A psychiatrist's solution

Post by -0+ »

Greta wrote:To be fair, psychologists are aware that sadness is not pathology unless it interferes sufficiently in a person's life for them to seek treatment.

However, the community at large, lead by the media, increasingly seems to confuse sadness with depression, which much irritates actual depression sufferers.
What are the key differences between sadness and depression? Can a line always be clearly drawn between the two?

It is easy to talk about resolving an internal conflict by changing one side of the conflict (eg, the idea or the reality), but one may only be able to change what one can control.

If Rick thinks that the world should be X and it is impossible or too difficult for him to change the world to become X then his only remaining option to resolve his conflict may be to change his idea that the world should be X. It is easy to suggest that he always has the option to change his idea, but this may be easier said than done.

If he loses control of his mind, or just his idea, then he may be unable to change his idea despite his best efforts, and he may be unable to resolve his conflict and ease his suffering without help.

The psychiatrist is aware of Rick's obsession with tragic fantasies. It is unclear how much control he has over his fantasies. Perhaps he welcomed them in the past and they have turned into monsters and now he is unable to get rid of them, as if they now have control over him ... It is possible that the fantasies are fuelled by certain lines of thinking and stopping these lines could stop the fantasies - or other lines of thinking could act as an antidote or a distraction to help disempower the fantasies. It is also possible there are physical reasons why he is unable to control the fantasies (eg, chemical imbalance) and medical treatment may be helpful.

All this raises the question: how much control does anyone really have over their mind - at the best of times; and at more depressing times?
User avatar
Hereandnow
Posts: 2837
Joined: July 11th, 2012, 9:16 pm
Favorite Philosopher: the moon and the stars

Re: A psychiatrist's solution

Post by Hereandnow »

-1-:
The stupidity of the question came from the regard of it by a (non-religious, rational) mind that already has decided on the (most likely true) assumption that purposeful will in our fates does not exist.

You, Hereandnow, have identified very correctly the milieu (intellectual milieu) in which the question would not have been regarded to be stupid, but valid, but nevertheless just as unanswerable. And that milieu would have been the religious one.
Sorry -1-:I have a hard time with the part about "the purposeful will in our fates." And when you call the "intellectual milieu" a "religious one" bafflement rises to incredulity.
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Religion, Theism and Mythology”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021