Study: How Many Atheists Are There? Be Suprised!

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Study: How Many Atheists Are There? Be Suprised!

Post by Sy Borg »

Dark Matter wrote:
Greta wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

Why? Isn't that just universalism? An appreciation that, on some level, all things in the universe are one, even if many parts are set in opposition to each other as it shapes itself.
I should have said, "No one whose ultimate concern is the Ground of Being (or Ultimate Reality) is an atheist. Interpretative beliefs are just that: interpretative beliefs." If the ultimate concern of "spiritual atheism" is not the Ground of Being, it's not spiritual; if it is, then it's not atheism. The point is, trying to put numbers on truly atheistic is ambiguous at best
Yes, probably true. The ground of being is much speculated on, but ultimately unknown.

It's easiest in this question is to accept people's self-identification, sans "cultural Jews", "nominal C of E's" and "lapsed Catholics". The question is moot up to a point because theistic influence can greatly outstrip theistic percentages of populations.
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Re: Study: How Many Atheists Are There? Be Suprised!

Post by Dark Matter »

Greta wrote:
Dark Matter wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

I should have said, "No one whose ultimate concern is the Ground of Being (or Ultimate Reality) is an atheist. Interpretative beliefs are just that: interpretative beliefs." If the ultimate concern of "spiritual atheism" is not the Ground of Being, it's not spiritual; if it is, then it's not atheism. The point is, trying to put numbers on truly atheistic is ambiguous at best
Yes, probably true. The ground of being is much speculated on, but ultimately unknown.

It's easiest in this question is to accept people's self-identification, sans "cultural Jews", "nominal C of E's" and "lapsed Catholics". The question is moot up to a point because theistic influence can greatly outstrip theistic percentages of populations.
It's easiest, but not very accurate. Everything we can know is indefinite.

-- Updated August 20th, 2017, 4:21 am to add the following --

For example: if I say I believe in God I am a fool; If I say I do not believe in God, I am a liar.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Study: How Many Atheists Are There? Be Suprised!

Post by Sy Borg »

If you believe in God and say that you do, then you're not a fool, just being honest. However, whatever you'd be classified as, it would not be as an atheist unless we're talking about not believing in anthropomorphic deities.

Maybe it would be better if we collected data on those who believe in an anthropomorphic God, some different conception of God, agnostic or non believers? Four categories. It would save some confusion. Too often people rationalise reality into convenient binaries, and then convince themselves that their models of convenience represent ontology.
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Re: Study: How Many Atheists Are There? Be Suprised!

Post by Fooloso4 »

DM:
You have your own beliefs, the majority of mankind does not agree.
The point being....?
The point being: your claims that a) whatever term being used in opposition to atheism invariably designates an indefinite Ground of Being, and b) that if the ultimate concern of "spiritual atheism" is not the Ground of Being, it's not spiritual, are predicated on the false assumption that your beliefs about the ground of being stand as an absolute universal measure. They do not. Your claims are arbitrary.

You said in an earlier post:
The article linked to in the OP uses the term “atheist” to refer to people who disbelieve or lack belief in the existence of a god or gods. Okay, fine. But what does it mean by the terms "god" or "gods"?
Your subsequent claims amount to saying that what is meant by god or gods is the ground of being. It stands to reason that if the majority of mankind does not agree with your beliefs about a ground of being then this is not what they mean by god or gods. The article is not about the rejection of your concept of and beliefs about the ground of being, nor is the rejection of atheism about the affirmation of your beliefs.
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Re: Study: How Many Atheists Are There? Be Suprised!

Post by Dark Matter »

Greta wrote:If you believe in God and say that you do, then you're not a fool, just being honest. However, whatever you'd be classified as, it would not be as an atheist unless we're talking about not believing in anthropomorphic deities.
Thank you for that, and you're right, but is not that easy -- at least not for me and I'm sure others like me who don't believe so much as they trust the veracity of personal experience. You've seen how it is. Skeptics insist that they know what I mean but persist in in arguing that my understanding concepts are about something "out there."
Science is reticent when it comes to the question of the great unity of which we somehow form a part. The popular name for it in our time is God. (Erwin Schrödinger)
Many atheists say they are atheists to avoid the blinding blizzard attached to the word "God."
Maybe it would be better if we collected data on those who believe in an anthropomorphic God, some different conception of God, agnostic or non believers? Four categories. It would save some confusion.

I don't think so. The reality is just too "fuzzy."
Too often people rationalise reality into convenient binaries, and then convince themselves that their models of convenience represent ontology.
True, and that is why surveys like the one in the OP are worthless.

-- Updated August 21st, 2017, 3:12 am to add the following --

F4:

I do not expect you agree or like my particular worldview, but I do expect the same respect that you and others have demanded from me: the right to my own point of view.
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