If we could communicate with God...

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Panzerfaust_60
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If we could communicate with God...

Post by Panzerfaust_60 »

Hi!

I just wanna start by saying that I'm not here to provoke or cause insult and I would like if we all had a nice and polite discussion.

Let's say that the Christian God is real, for the sake of argument, although it could work for other gods as well.

Imagine room with 10 people and 10 phones. One of them is a Christian, while the other 9 are members of other religions (I know there are way more than 9, but for the sake of simplicity...)
They are all talking on their phones. They all believe they are talking to God, when in reality only the Christian is (since his God is the only one that actually exists) - he can hear him on the other side, while the other 9 can just hear silence and static, but think they are talking to their gods.
In that scenario, all it would take to convert most, if not all of the remaining 9 people to Christianity is to just hand them the Christian phone. They would feel the enormous difference between dead silence and an actual person.

So, why isn't this difference more obvious in real life?

To be clear, I'm not saying that I expect God to actually talk to us, nor am I saying that God has to answer every prayer when and how we want to, but he does send some sort of feedback, right?
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LuckyR
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Re: If we could communicate with God...

Post by LuckyR »

Panzerfaust_60 wrote: December 31st, 2017, 12:05 pm Hi!

I just wanna start by saying that I'm not here to provoke or cause insult and I would like if we all had a nice and polite discussion.

Let's say that the Christian God is real, for the sake of argument, although it could work for other gods as well.

Imagine room with 10 people and 10 phones. One of them is a Christian, while the other 9 are members of other religions (I know there are way more than 9, but for the sake of simplicity...)
They are all talking on their phones. They all believe they are talking to God, when in reality only the Christian is (since his God is the only one that actually exists) - he can hear him on the other side, while the other 9 can just hear silence and static, but think they are talking to their gods.
In that scenario, all it would take to convert most, if not all of the remaining 9 people to Christianity is to just hand them the Christian phone. They would feel the enormous difference between dead silence and an actual person.

So, why isn't this difference more obvious in real life?

To be clear, I'm not saying that I expect God to actually talk to us, nor am I saying that God has to answer every prayer when and how we want to, but he does send some sort of feedback, right?
Well as you know in most religions the "phone" is actually a priest or other human mouthpiece for the god. In this scenario (reality) the mouthpiece tells the rabble what they want to hear, thus all ten hear what they want to hear. No trading of phones will accomplish much.
"As usual... it depends."
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Count Lucanor
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Re: If we could communicate with God...

Post by Count Lucanor »

Panzerfaust_60 wrote: December 31st, 2017, 12:05 pm
In that scenario, all it would take to convert most, if not all of the remaining 9 people to Christianity is to just hand them the Christian phone. They would feel the enormous difference between dead silence and an actual person.
It wouldn't work. Every person with a phone would say that god only speaks with silence and static, through the chosen spokesperson and the sacred phone. The one that has voice sounds is most likely the devil.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
Eduk
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Re: If we could communicate with God...

Post by Eduk »

If you have a stick with a nail through it and I have a gun then, in a fight, I would be the likely winner. No matter the amount of bias in favour of the stick the difference is profound. Eventually all those biased in favour of the stick no longer exist so aren't in a position to be biased any longer. Much in the same way that religions come and go.
Oh and the straight forward answer to your question is because there is obviously no Christian God.
Unknown means unknown.
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Albert Tatlock
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Re: If we could communicate with God...

Post by Albert Tatlock »

Panzerfaust_60 wrote: December 31st, 2017, 12:05 pm
I just wanna start by saying that I'm not here to provoke or cause insult
That's fair enough but I hope you don't think that means it's okay not to be offended when others make the effort to provoke or cause it.
So, why isn't this difference more obvious in real life?
Because it's just a hypothetical scenario, that means you just invented the situation and it didn't really happen.
Judaka
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Re: If we could communicate with God...

Post by Judaka »

Jews and Muslims would only be converted if God said "btw Jesus is my son", talking to him is simply not enough.
Alias
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Re: If we could communicate with God...

Post by Alias »

Most people won't be dissuaded from their entrenched belief, whatever the evidence of their senses and reason might tell them.
Phones wouldn't convince them of the presence of another god, any more than physics, evolution, medicine, geology, astronomy and the colossal failure of religion to deliver anything it's ever promised has, so far, convinced them of the absence of their own gods.
"Fake phones! Fake phones!"
Anyway, I don't think they're particularly interested in what God has to say: He had His turn to talk in the Bible. Once that book closed and the age of miracles safely behind us, we get to pick whatever we like from the book and disregard whatever doesn't serve our purpose.
We do all the talking... and God doesn't listen.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Belindi
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Re: If we could communicate with God...

Post by Belindi »

Panzerfaust wrote:
To be clear, I'm not saying that I expect God to actually talk to us, nor am I saying that God has to answer every prayer when and how we want to, but he does send some sort of feedback, right?
The feedback is empirical evidence that life has been served by our action or goodwill towards life. Would that do?
Alias
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Re: If we could communicate with God...

Post by Alias »

Belindi wrote: January 21st, 2018, 9:06 pm The feedback is empirical evidence that life has been served by our action or goodwill towards life. Would that do?
It probably would go some way...
...if only!!!
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Newme
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Re: If we could communicate with God...

Post by Newme »

I’ve come to consider God as a very personal experience so the phone analogy wouldn’t work. Buddhist ideas likely influenced Jesus who said, “the kingdom (realm) of God is within you.”

You can’t force someone to be open, learn or accept something they’re not open and ready to, especially God. God is defined as love and a bit more specifically as I AM THAT I AM... again the idea that God is based on one’s own understanding of one’s own perception.
“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.” - Epicurus
Belindi
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Re: If we could communicate with God...

Post by Belindi »

Is there any version of God-belief that would enable communication? I wonder if God were stripped of the All-Powerful attribute then he would be more accessible.

I mean, a fantasy of an imagined being who was all-good, and all-knowing, would not cause any harm and would help to enable me to be nicer and happier.
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Sy Borg
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Re: If we could communicate with God...

Post by Sy Borg »

Alias wrote: January 17th, 2018, 5:13 pm Most people won't be dissuaded from their entrenched belief, whatever the evidence of their senses and reason might tell them ... "Fake phones! Fake phones!"
:lol: This rings truest to me so far. There is no possible proof.

There can never be enough proof for those whose identity and social networks are enmeshed with their opinions.
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