Spiritual versus Religious

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Steve3007
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Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Steve3007 »

Sunsets and sunrises are great aren't they.

I live in the same place where artist J.M.W. Turner worked and claimed had the best sunsets/sunrises in the world. Although I don't think he'd done an exhaustive survey, and the spectacular sunsets of the time were largely due to the 1816 eruption of Mount Tambora in Indonesia, which presumably made them a phenomenon that wasn't just confined to the south east coast of England.
Steve3007
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Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Steve3007 »

The Dunning–Kruger Effect is a cognitive bias wherein relatively unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it is.
If somebody claimed to be a world expert on the Dunning–Kruger Effect, such that we conclude that they are suffering from the Dunning–Kruger Effect, I suppose we could ask them for a prognosis on themselves. If they conclude that they are indeed suffering from it, then they must actually have some knowledge of it, so they can't be suffering from it. If they conclude that they aren't suffering from it, then they clearly know nothing, so must be suffering from it.

Is that a genuine paradox or just a vain attempt at clever-dickery?
Belindi
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Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Belindi »

Steve, their peers would ask for diagnostic evidence such as whether or not the somebody has a background of knowledge at least to the standard of her peers.

If the somebody had the background of knowledge and misdiagnosed their peers would suspect that they lacked insight. What's lacking from your paradox is whether or not the somebody retains insight into their own circumstances. If the proclaimed expert being truly knowledgeable also retains insight then whatever she diagnoses will probably be right.
Spectrum
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Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Spectrum »

Dark Matter wrote: March 13th, 2018, 12:55 am
Spectrum wrote: March 13th, 2018, 12:36 am Note my thread re DMT.
http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... =4&t=15451

Perhaps there was a sudden surge of DMT in you.
If you want a repeat of such experiences try Ayahuasca [has DMT and is non addictive].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca
Oh, jeez. Give it a rest, Spectrum. Seeing the Dunning-Kruger Effect in action is tiresome at best. (The Dunning–Kruger Effect is a cognitive bias wherein relatively unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it is.)
What I see most prevalent re the "Dunning–Kruger Effect" are from theists who displayed arrogance and superiority over non-believers:
[The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1].
Worst, this arrogance is merely based on faith.

So far what I have presented is based on evidence and arguments based on reason and is open for discussion.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Metathought
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Joined: August 4th, 2013, 1:14 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Metathought »

Burning ghost

Sorry, but I did not experience any of the things you listed, prior to the experience that I described.
Belindi
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Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Belindi »

Metathought wrote: March 14th, 2018, 9:39 pm Burning ghost

Sorry, but I did not experience any of the things you listed, prior to the experience that I described.
Why are you sorry?

To what do you attribute your ecstasy? Are you seeking suggestions or theories about ecstatic states?
Metathought
Posts: 54
Joined: August 4th, 2013, 1:14 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Metathought »

Belindi
Why are you sorry?
I must say that I am somewhat taken aback by your remark.
My comment re being sorry was simply a matter of politeness.
To what do you attribute your ecstasy?
Perhaps the answer lies in an earlier statement by Greta:
“...I see secular spirituality as just just paying attention to reality closely enough to have an emotional reaction to our existential situation - which is completely mind-bending when you really stop to think about it.”
Belindi
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Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Belindi »

Metathought wrote:
I must say that I am somewhat taken aback by your remark.
My comment re being sorry was simply a matter of politeness.
Philosophers take it for granted that you are responsible for making a claim. I doubt if any philosopher would be offended simply because you disagreed. I am aware that in everyday conversations some people do lard their conversations with 'sorry' and here too it's usually unnecessary and is sometimes sarcastic.

You liked Greta's comment:
“...I see secular spirituality as just just paying attention to reality closely enough to have an emotional reaction to our existential situation - which is completely mind-bending when you really stop to think about it.”
I like it too. I'd call it a feeling of awe.
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