Spiritual versus Religious

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Post Reply
Metathought
Posts: 54
Joined: August 4th, 2013, 1:14 pm

Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Metathought »

A stong sensation or awareness of our interconnectedness to everything in the universe pervades each human being. This is the essence of the statement in the Desiderata:

“...You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars...”

It is a feeling of awe and reverence which may be termed “spiritual”. It is independent of any anthropomorphism which is a key factor of religion.

Anthropomorphism -
an interpretation of what is not human or personal in terms of human or personal characteristics.
(Merriam Webster Dictionary)


Religion, based on some belief or dogma, is a social artifact or institution.
Institutions provide structure and a sense of meaning in human social existence.
Some other examples of institutions are the educational system and the legal system.

Religion may help to provide psychological security by helping some to deal with the uncertainties of daily life and the event of death – something that awaits each one of us.

Just as a child may feel comforted and secure in the caring provided by its parents or significant others, so too, in later life, many seek a similar relationship with a “supernatural entity” as espoused by religion.

Anthropomorphism is a key factor in the difference between being spiritual versus being religious.
User avatar
Frost
Posts: 511
Joined: January 20th, 2018, 2:44 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Frost »

Hmm, my background is with Indian religion, particularly the Vedanta tradition (the mystical branch of Hinduism), and I would disagree with the dichotomy presented. Advaita Vedanta is not necessarily anthropomorphized, although it recognizes anthropomorphization as a path to the Absolute, such as in avataras like Buddha, Krishna, Jesus, etc. There are various ways at attempting to explain and direct one to the Absolute, and some people may do that through deities, avataras, meditation, or direct contemplative practice. Avataras and deities help to elevate one morally and spiritually, particularly in daily activities, and I think that this relationship is understood in the Vedanta tradition while recognizing the non-dual nature of reality.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14942
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Sy Borg »

Metathought wrote: January 28th, 2018, 9:40 pmAnthropomorphism is a key factor in the difference between being spiritual versus being religious.
I agree. I see secular spirituality as just just paying attention to reality closely enough to have an emotional reaction to our existential situation - which is completely mind-bending when you really stop to think about it.

Of course, the only things that are like humans are humans themselves and, to some extent, other intelligent animals and emerging AI.

I have long felt that the Sun and Earth worship of indigenous people and some ancient civilisations, when stripped of their odd side beliefs, was logical. The Earth and Sun are basically everything to us, more worthy of worship (if one is so inclined) than anything else I can think of.

Anthropomorphisation, of course, is ancient thinking, that was birthed before it was realised that humanity and its mentalities were not the pinnacles of being but more likely just one more intelligent species amongst many millions of them scattered in the vastness of space and time.
Dark Matter
Posts: 1366
Joined: August 18th, 2016, 11:29 am
Favorite Philosopher: Paul Tillich

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Dark Matter »

Some religions are radically non-anthropomorphic without denying the personhood of God.
Spectrum
Posts: 5161
Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Spectrum »

Both 'religion' and 'spirituality' are very loose terms thus cannot have absolute meanings or even a standard common meanings especially within a philosophical forum.

To use the above terms effectively, one has to be like entering into a contract with the parties one is communicating with. This meant both parties must lay out their intended definition of 'religion' and 'spirituality' then agree to a definition by consensus before they discuss any related contentious issues.
Thus like any deals and contracts both sides or all sides must trash out the their views and arrive at a common definition before discussion begins.
If there is no consensus, it is better not to start the discussion or debate, else it is apples and oranges talking pass each other.

Religion:
Personally I prefer the definition of 'religion' laid out by Ninian Smart who define religion as complying with 7 critical dimensions and he explained them in a thick book.
https://prezi.com/bjyy9j3vws6m/7-dimens ... -religion/
To the above I would add the existential crisis, dilemma and angst.
It is no point discussing religions if we do not agree to a common definition.

If we proceed then we have to be very aware of the differences.

Spirituality:
I define 'spirituality' as equivalent to the philosophical drive of humans towards optimizing the well being of the individual and therefrom humanity. Philosophical in this case is philosophy-proper.
As such spirituality encompasses whatever it takes at the meta-level for a person to do 'good' for oneself and its contribution to humanity.
In this case religion is one aspect of spirituality.
Thus all human actions and intentions are imbue with an element of spirituality at the meta-level, e.g. eat well, good exercise, right actions, are ultimately spiritual.

If 'spirituality' is defined in terms of a specific ideology, then there will be argument till the cow comes home.
Anthropomorphism is a key factor in the difference between being spiritual versus being religious.
This is out.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14942
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Sy Borg »

Dark Matter wrote: January 29th, 2018, 12:39 amSome religions are radically non-anthropomorphic without denying the personhood of God.
What does that mean? It sounds like a contradiction.
User avatar
Frost
Posts: 511
Joined: January 20th, 2018, 2:44 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Frost »

Spectrum wrote: January 29th, 2018, 1:03 am Both 'religion' and 'spirituality' are very loose terms thus cannot have absolute meanings or even a standard common meanings especially within a philosophical forum.

To use the above terms effectively, one has to be like entering into a contract with the parties one is communicating with. This meant both parties must lay out their intended definition of 'religion' and 'spirituality' then agree to a definition by consensus before they discuss any related contentious issues.
Thus like any deals and contracts both sides or all sides must trash out the their views and arrive at a common definition before discussion begins.
If there is no consensus, it is better not to start the discussion or debate, else it is apples and oranges talking pass each other.

Religion:
Personally I prefer the definition of 'religion' laid out by Ninian Smart who define religion as complying with 7 critical dimensions and he explained them in a thick book.
https://prezi.com/bjyy9j3vws6m/7-dimens ... -religion/
To the above I would add the existential crisis, dilemma and angst.
It is no point discussing religions if we do not agree to a common definition.

If we proceed then we have to be very aware of the differences.

Spirituality:
I define 'spirituality' as equivalent to the philosophical drive of humans towards optimizing the well being of the individual and therefrom humanity. Philosophical in this case is philosophy-proper.
As such spirituality encompasses whatever it takes at the meta-level for a person to do 'good' for oneself and its contribution to humanity.
In this case religion is one aspect of spirituality.
Thus all human actions and intentions are imbue with an element of spirituality at the meta-level, e.g. eat well, good exercise, right actions, are ultimately spiritual.

If 'spirituality' is defined in terms of a specific ideology, then there will be argument till the cow comes home.

The 7 dimensions of religion seem to be very biased in the western direction, despite mentioning eastern religions. Under the dimension of experience, nowhere was it mentioned any experience of God/reality or any meditative/contemplative practice. It seems difficult to me to have a conception of religion without that element. This is found in the mystic elements of all religions.

And with respect to spirituality, you seem to have defined it in a way that has nothing to do with the spirit. What you described seems like a form of humanism or morality rather than spirituality.
User avatar
Albert Tatlock
Posts: 183
Joined: October 15th, 2017, 3:23 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Albert Tatlock »

Metathought wrote: January 28th, 2018, 9:40 pm Anthropomorphism is a key factor in the difference between being spiritual versus being religious.
You've made no mention of those of us who are neither spiritual nor religious, don't we matter? I think you're being something that probably ends in "ist".
Dark Matter
Posts: 1366
Joined: August 18th, 2016, 11:29 am
Favorite Philosopher: Paul Tillich

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Dark Matter »

Greta wrote: January 29th, 2018, 5:43 am
Dark Matter wrote: January 29th, 2018, 12:39 amSome religions are radically non-anthropomorphic without denying the personhood of God.
What does that mean? It sounds like a contradiction.
It’s classical theism.

It is simply false to imply that Thomists and other critics of theistic personalism regard God as “impersonal.” When classical theists that God is not “a person,” they do NOT mean that God is impersonal, an “it” rather than a “he.” On the contrary, most classical theists, including all Thomists, would say that among the divine attributes are intellect, will, omniscience, freedom, and love. Naturally then, they regard God as personal rather than impersonal, since nothing impersonal could intelligibly be said to possess these attributes. The problem with the thesis that “God is a person” is not the word “person,” but rather the word “a.” It seems that the first time the English language formula “God is a person” appears in the history of Christian theology is in the 1644 heresy trial, in Gloucester, England, of someone named John Biddle.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14942
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Sy Borg »

Why is God a he and not a she or it? Why can't intellect, will, omniscience, freedom, and love be considered to be androgynous qualities?
Dark Matter
Posts: 1366
Joined: August 18th, 2016, 11:29 am
Favorite Philosopher: Paul Tillich

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Dark Matter »

Greta wrote: January 29th, 2018, 5:39 pm Why is God a he and not a she or it? Why can't intellect, will, omniscience, freedom, and love be considered to be androgynous qualities?
Here. The "it" was addressed.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Steve3007 »

It's because yang is masculine and masculine is active, positive and gets stuff done while feminine is passive and looks after the babies. And God gets stuff done. So he's yang. That's the line, it seems.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Steve3007 »

Albert:
You've made no mention of those of us who are neither spiritual nor religious, don't we matter? I think you're being something that probably ends in "ist".
Atheist-ist. Is that a thing?
Fanman
Posts: 3258
Joined: December 14th, 2011, 9:42 am

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Fanman »

I think that religion and spirituality are somewhat intertwined, because they both as an ideal, aim to put human-beings in touch with something that transcends our physical nature, something greater than ourselves – where the focus is spiritual growth, rather than physical gain (which becomes secondary). Religions are structured and quite rigid in the way that they go about doing this, and religious adherents must accord with the principles found in their religion's scriptures in order to reap the rewards of being spiritually aware.

Spirituality as I understand it, is something that can be explored without a strict book of rules, such that there are many spiritual paths that people can take. I think that both religion and spirituality claim to be the truth or a means of discovering the truth, be it an esoteric truth or something more down to earth such as the golden rule. Whilst I think that there aspects of religion and spirituality that correlate with people's experiences, I am sceptical about religious/spiritual ideologies purporting to be the truth. There are so many different religions and spiritual paths that people can take, all with differing perspectives that correlate with different aspects of the human condition, making them all “right” in some ways or certain areas, in an anecdotal sense.

It is difficult to claim which religion or spiritual path is the "best" for people to be engaged in, which most enhances life or which is most "right", because different ideologies and practices work for different people, and for the people whom religion and/or spirituality has worked for, the fact that it has been useful to them probably reinforces their beliefs in the truth it purports.
Theists believe, agnostics ponder and atheists analyse. A little bit of each should get us the right answer.
Dark Matter
Posts: 1366
Joined: August 18th, 2016, 11:29 am
Favorite Philosopher: Paul Tillich

Re: Spiritual versus Religious

Post by Dark Matter »

Steve3007 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 6:53 pm It's because yang is masculine and masculine is active, positive and gets stuff done while feminine is passive and looks after the babies. And God gets stuff done. So he's yang. That's the line, it seems.
Oh, geez. Why are you so literal? It’s analogical. Most religious language is. It’s both/and, not either/or. It’s Father-Mother in one parent combined: two principles in one God. “He” or “she” depends entirely on how you relate.

Fanman:

I think you will agree when I say, “Beware of the TRUTH.”
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Religion, Theism and Mythology”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021