They're thinking now the Ancient Egyptians quarried and moved stone through sound so my idea might not be so far fetched
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They're thinking now the Ancient Egyptians quarried and moved stone through sound so my idea might not be so far fetched
That won't shake a skeleton. Try this one:
Not at all.
But this is a bible story. My problem with thinking like this is that it covers up what is genuinely important with narrative. You could have told me any one of a number of scriptural tales, but they would each possess an assumption that cannot be clearly defended. Why not allow yourself to think philosophically, put aside stories, and move to what underlies them? E.g., this Adam and Eve story from Genesis vis a vis good and evil: you talk of choice, but can you make sense of this term? When you talk about god, what do you mean without dogmatic reference to an ancient book?jerlands
Suffering is the search for an answer to survival. It is encumbered by all of creation and thus given the world. The Biblical story however subjects Adam and Eve to the notions of good and evil, philosophical concepts that separate man from beast. Adam and Eve were given a choice by "God" and they took accepted that choice as their destiny to be an active participant in a solution (as some might interpret the story.)
Pray, elaborate.Actually all creation has notions of right and wrong as demonstrated by certain form of behavior such as "pack."
Which? *__-
When you use the word ego I dismiss it as a childish state so you're not getting through to me using that concept. But yes, I don't quite understand how free will is bound in pride.Namelesss wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 2:35 amNot at all.
I'd be happy to show the logical support for the comment, if you like.
I already have pretty much spelled out why and what.
I can take it more slowly if you are really interested in understanding.
A little thought makes the truth of my statement rather obvious, unless one believes in free-will/choice (is bound and blind in Pride), at which point one defends it (free-will/choice) with everything, and ignores ---> kills that which appears to 'threaten' such a 'sinful egoic structure'.
The story of Adam and Eve wasn't so much about good and evil as it was about choice and it's actually a complicated story. It involves the two tellings of creation and as there are different personas of "God" (different names) in each version so are there different personas for Adam. What Adam and Eve are in one persona is the first man/woman and another persona the first of "God's" people. As the first of "God's" people they were created by "God" to bring good into the world (order) but "God" gave them free will and so he left them with the choice, they could assume suffering and burden themselves with this task or not. That choice was what set them on their path willingly, which was the only true way.Hereandnow wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 3:06 amBut this is a bible story. My problem with thinking like this is that it covers up what is genuinely important with narrative. You could have told me any one of a number of scriptural tales, but they would each possess an assumption that cannot be clearly defended. Why not allow yourself to think philosophically, put aside stories, and move to what underlies them? E.g., this Adam and Eve story from Genesis vis a vis good and evil: you talk of choice, but can you make sense of this term? When you talk about god, what do you mean without dogmatic reference to an ancient book?jerlands
Suffering is the search for an answer to survival. It is encumbered by all of creation and thus given the world. The Biblical story however subjects Adam and Eve to the notions of good and evil, philosophical concepts that separate man from beast. Adam and Eve were given a choice by "God" and they took accepted that choice as their destiny to be an active participant in a solution (as some might interpret the story.)
I am not trying to be insulting, it's just that I believe people, especially people like you who, like myself, are inclined to interpret the world as a deeply meaningful place, need to look more deeply into your religious beliefs.
A pack of dogs, a herd of elephant, a school of fish all have an understanding of their place in the structure, how the structure behaves, how to defend the structure and when you misbehave in the structure. This type of behavior indicates an understanding of good/bad, right/wrong.Hereandnow wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 3:06 amPray, elaborate.Actually all creation has notions of right and wrong as demonstrated by certain form of behavior such as "pack."
imagination (n.)Count Lucanor wrote: ↑February 16th, 2018, 3:37 pmThat's a very limited concept of imagination. I guess you never listened to a song "Imagine" by a guy named John Lennon.Jerlands wrote: Imagination is simply placing one foot in front of the other before you do it. It's the mind following some progression through the minds medium which is thought and which we comprehend through reason.
And so???jerlands wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 7:43 amimagination (n.)Count Lucanor wrote: ↑February 16th, 2018, 3:37 pm
That's a very limited concept of imagination. I guess you never listened to a song "Imagine" by a guy named John Lennon.
"faculty of the mind which forms and manipulates images," mid-14c., ymaginacion, from Old French imaginacion "concept, mental picture; hallucination," from Latin imaginationem (nominative imaginatio) "imagination, a fancy," noun of action from past participle stem of imaginari "to form an image of, represent"), from imago "an image, a likeness," from stem of imitari "to copy, imitate" (from PIE root *aim- "to copy")
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I probably can't convince you that you already spoil the inquiry when you assume references to ancient Egypt, etc., are essential to a discussion about suffering and redemption. But one day you might ask yourself, how would a philosopher (and not a medieval philosopher, but an interesting one, like Buber, Kierkegaard, Otto, Levinas, Husserl, and so on) provide insight into the religious condition of humanity?jerlands
Notions of Suffering and Redemption are religious philosophical concepts so it's hard to avoid some reference be it from Ancient Egypt, the Bible, Laozi, Buddha, those seem to be the source of great thought on the matter.
First.. I never said anything about anything being essential. I simply said it was hard to avoid. Secondly, take the lead into this realm you want to venture. I don't see it.Hereandnow wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 11:14 amI probably can't convince you that you already spoil the inquiry when you assume references to ancient Egypt, etc., are essential to a discussion about suffering and redemption. But one day you might ask yourself, how would a philosopher (and not a medieval philosopher, but an interesting one, like Buber, Kierkegaard, Otto, Levinas, Husserl, and so on) provide insight into the religious condition of humanity?jerlands
Notions of Suffering and Redemption are religious philosophical concepts so it's hard to avoid some reference be it from Ancient Egypt, the Bible, Laozi, Buddha, those seem to be the source of great thought on the matter.
Ancient thinking, events, interpretations: these are things we need to get beyond, and once we have done this, and we have put some serious analytical works under our belt, then we can revisit them and they take on new significance. But without this you find yourself up the same tree as the howling evangelical Baptist minister or the dogmatic Catholic. Religious people, and I am among them, evolve through philosophy; they get past so called "grand narratives" and into the real world, and by real I mean out of narrative, what is there before you when story telling is dropped (as best it can be dropped).
jerlands wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 4:07 amWhen you use the word ego I dismiss it as a childish state so you're not getting through to me using that concept.Namelesss wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 2:35 am
Not at all.
I'd be happy to show the logical support for the comment, if you like.
I already have pretty much spelled out why and what.
I can take it more slowly if you are really interested in understanding.
A little thought makes the truth of my statement rather obvious, unless one believes in free-will/choice (is bound and blind in Pride), at which point one defends it (free-will/choice) with everything, and ignores ---> kills that which appears to 'threaten' such a 'sinful egoic structure'.
For there to be 'free-will/choice' in actuality, you must have the power to change a moment if existence to bend to your 'Will'.But yes, I don't quite understand how free will is bound in pride.
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Well I missed the definition so if you would kindly post that again. Is the ego simply self or is the ego a part of self?
So that I'm not mistaken, that should read "change a moment in existence?".
If someone robs from another does that change existence and do people have the choice in commiting acts like robbery or murder?
Would you provide an example of what you're declaring.Namelesss wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 10:48 pm Did you not read ny short offering on 'free-will/choice'? I explained three ways from Sunday! How is repeating myself going to make any difference if you do not read and understand what I write.
To have and exercise 'free-will/choice', you must CREATE something according to your 'Will'.
You have a totally different "God" than I. My "God" game me free-will so I might develop for in choice we learn.Namelesss wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 10:48 pm But first, you must JUDGE what is/exists/is Created as 'insufficient' for your desires.
In doing so, in your terms, you would be JUDGING God's Creation and finding it wanting!!
Then, you have a 'better idea' to implement (bypassing mere suggestion).
Outvoting God = Superior to God!
Yes, I'm telling you I don't see how free-will is bound to pride. Pride might be thought of as excessive self esteem but I have also the option to interpret pride as satisfaction in achievement so what is your definition.Namelesss wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 10:48 pm And you are telling me that you cannot see how this might relate to Pride?
Really?
If that doesn't give the ego some food for denial, nothing will.
Perhaps the 'seed' denied today will blossom forth at some other, more fertile, moment; a day, year, decade... all is well. *__-
Everything that you think and feel (feelings are thoughts), know, to be who and what you are, your complete identity as you know you/it, exists in/as 'thought'!
Of course. Thank you for even noticing! *__-
When I mentioned that who and what we are manifests at each and every moment, that means that in a moment finds us with our murderer nature in the chute, that is what the moment will manifest.and do people have the choice in commiting acts like robbery or murder?
I'm not sure how to respond. I'm saying that something is not philosophically/scientifically possible, and you are asking for an example of that impossibility.
Same God, different Perspectives. *__-You have a totally different "God" than I. My "God" game me free-will so I might develop for in choice we learn.Namelesss wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 10:48 pm But first, you must JUDGE what is/exists/is Created as 'insufficient' for your desires.
In doing so, in your terms, you would be JUDGING God's Creation and finding it wanting!!
Then, you have a 'better idea' to implement (bypassing mere suggestion).
Outvoting God = Superior to God!
Namelesss wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 10:48 pm And you are telling me that you cannot see how this might relate to Pride?
Really?
If that doesn't give the ego some food for denial, nothing will.
Perhaps the 'seed' denied today will blossom forth at some other, more fertile, moment; a day, year, decade... all is well. *__-
Yes, I'm telling you I don't see how free-will is bound to pride.
Pride might be thought of as excessive self esteem
but I have also the option
I understand the common definitions, which are numerous.to interpret pride as satisfaction in achievement so what is your definition.
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