Who Is God?
- TigerNinja
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Who Is God?
The question is less who is he, and more what is he. Islam has the understandable rule of not being allowed to portray Allah in imagery. Most of the time however (In Abrahamic religions) he is portrayed as a male figure with a beard in the sky. In Eastern polytheistic religions, Gods are composed of animals and are more abstract. Personally, I prefer this approach, and although I am atheist, I find that usually in Abrahamic religious imagery, they anthropomorphise God. In what religious text (I'm not being sarcastic; this is an honest question) is God specifically said to be a man with a beard, in the sky. In the sky is rational, due to Heaven supposedly being in the sky. I don't like anthropomorphism in a God, as that was one of my 'deal-breakers' with theistic religions. God/gods were always portrayed as a being composed of, or simply a transcendent form of a regular animal on Earth. They were always composed of Earthly creatures. Humans can't comprehend anything beyond it as that is all we have been exposed to in our whole lives, but despite that, at least do what Sikhs do and say that he has no form. So, all in all, who and what is God in your opinion.
- jerlands
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Re: Who Is God?
God is said to be the singular creative force, the cause, the reason for creation and that reason is yet understood.TigerNinja wrote: ↑February 28th, 2018, 6:21 pm So, all in all, who and what is God in your opinion.
- TigerNinja
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Re: Who Is God?
I agree with that in the sense of the use of a force that is single yet omnipresent and that is also that which cannot be understood. The ambiguity means that the definition of God is not something which can simply be explained in simple terms of x and y, which makes it a more tempting prospect to follow while all the while being so much less tempting due to the ambiguity which gives it the allure (Ironic, contradictory and confusing, I know).jerlands wrote: ↑February 28th, 2018, 6:35 pmGod is said to be the singular creative force, the cause, the reason for creation and that reason is yet understood.TigerNinja wrote: ↑February 28th, 2018, 6:21 pm So, all in all, who and what is God in your opinion.
- jerlands
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Re: Who Is God?
I don't know, which makes for the journey. The only "God" that is said to exist is the "God" mentioned in the Bible. The problem with that notion is there is evidence the Bible is composite from many sources. Also, the notion of "God" isn't unique to the Bible but existed in Egypt as the creative force Ptah. So.. Along with the question of "God" we have the question of what the Bible actually is. Is this a path to salvation or a path to destruction? Either way I believe the sheer existence of the Bible is evidence of "God's" existence.TigerNinja wrote: ↑February 28th, 2018, 6:42 pmI agree with that in the sense of the use of a force that is single yet omnipresent and that is also that which cannot be understood. The ambiguity means that the definition of God is not something which can simply be explained in simple terms of x and y, which makes it a more tempting prospect to follow while all the while being so much less tempting due to the ambiguity which gives it the allure (Ironic, contradictory and confusing, I know).
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Re: Who Is God?
God is an Impossibility
http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=193474
The idea [not concept] is a psychological manifestation in the mind of theists to soothe the inherent unavoidable existential crisis.
- jerlands
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Re: Who Is God?
The argument seems to be based solely on the notion of perfection? Also, a concept is an abstract idea.Spectrum wrote: ↑February 28th, 2018, 11:40 pm Note my default position and argument here;
God is an Impossibility
http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=193474
The idea [not concept] is a psychological manifestation in the mind of theists to soothe the inherent unavoidable existential crisis.
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Re: Who Is God?
Note merely 'perfection' but it hinges on the necessity that an idea of God MUST be absolutely perfect.jerlands wrote: ↑February 28th, 2018, 11:51 pmThe argument seems to be based solely on the notion of perfection? Also, a concept is an abstract idea.Spectrum wrote: ↑February 28th, 2018, 11:40 pm Note my default position and argument here;
God is an Impossibility
http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=193474
The idea [not concept] is a psychological manifestation in the mind of theists to soothe the inherent unavoidable existential crisis.
There is a need to differentiate between what is empirically possible and what is empirically impossible.
For precision sake there is a difference between an idea and a concept.
A concept [philosophical] is conceptualize by the intellect using elements that are directly empirical or empirically possible.
An idea [philosophical] is a thought that is idealized based on elements that are NOT empirical nor empirically possible.
- jerlands
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Re: Who Is God?
So why must "God" be absolutely perfect?
An idea [philosophical] CAN be can be constructed thru abstract concepts.Spectrum wrote: ↑March 1st, 2018, 12:05 am There is a need to differentiate between what is empirically possible and what is empirically impossible.
For precision sake there is a difference between an idea and a concept.
A concept [philosophical] is conceptualize by the intellect using elements that are directly empirical or empirically possible.
An idea [philosophical] is a thought that is idealized based on elements that are NOT empirical nor empirically possible.
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Re: Who Is God?
I have given reasons within that thread.
Note this;
http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... 31#p305331
I have explained in greater details in earlier posts.I understand human believe in all sorts of God [inferior, superior, perfect, not perfect, immutable, etc.] but as I had explained and justified, a God by default MUST be an 'absolutely perfect being' so that it does not end up eating the sh1t of another greater God.
Any theist who is made aware of this limitation of their God will definitely opt for the ontological God -an absolutely perfect being - [than which no greater exists] since it is as easy as just a shifting of thoughts to a more secured ideas.
The are many definitions of what is an 'idea' within that wiki link.An idea [philosophical] CAN be can be constructed thru abstract concepts.
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The one I relied upon therein is the one from Kant;
Note I am not insisting Kant's definition of idea is THE definition.Immanuel Kant defines an 'idea' as opposed to a 'concept'. "Regulative ideas" are ideals that one must tend towards, but by definition may not be completely realized. Liberty, according to Kant, is an idea. The autonomy of the rational and universal subject is opposed to the determinism of the empirical subject.[20] Kant felt that it is precisely in knowing its limits that philosophy exists. The business of philosophy he thought was not to give rules, but to analyze the private judgements of good common sense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea#Immanuel_Kant
Since there is no absolute permanent meaning, so when we used the term idea, it is a matter of the proposed definition to be used and to be agreed by parties involved.
- jerlands
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Re: Who Is God?
Ok.. so I see issues. The first is the notion of perfection. My understanding of perfection is 'completeness' and if I ride with that I perceive the universe as complete possibly except for my understanding. The second is the notion of other gods. If there is only one "God" (being the creator) then anything else is either part of this "God" or a reflection of.Spectrum wrote: ↑March 1st, 2018, 1:18 amI have given reasons within that thread.
Note this;
http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... 31#p305331
I have explained in greater details in earlier posts.I understand human believe in all sorts of God [inferior, superior, perfect, not perfect, immutable, etc.] but as I had explained and justified, a God by default MUST be an 'absolutely perfect being' so that it does not end up eating the sh1t of another greater God.
Any theist who is made aware of this limitation of their God will definitely opt for the ontological God -an absolutely perfect being - [than which no greater exists] since it is as easy as just a shifting of thoughts to a more secured ideas.
Since there is no absolute permanent meaning, so when we used the term idea, it is a matter of the proposed definition to be used and to be agreed by parties involved.
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Re: Who Is God?
Note it is not merely 'perfection' but absolute perfection, i.e. an absolutely perfect God - the ontological God which is, a God than which no greater exists.jerlands wrote: ↑March 1st, 2018, 1:38 am
Ok.. so I see issues. The first is the notion of perfection. My understanding of perfection is 'completeness' and if I ride with that I perceive the universe as complete possibly except for my understanding. The second is the notion of other gods. If there is only one "God" (being the creator) then anything else is either part of this "God" or a reflection of.
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The Islamic God proclaimed itself in the Quran as an ontological God, i.e. an absolutely perfect God than which no greater exists - Allah-u-Akbar.
The Quran also claims the God reflected in the Bible and NT [& other gods] is a corrupted and inferior God, thus has to be subservient to Allah.
If you are a Christian, would you accept that?
No normal and 'rational' Christian would accept that.
Theologians like St. Anselm, Descartes and others also claim the Christian God is an ontological God, i.e. a God than which no greater exists.
In this case, the Christian God will be on par with the Islamic God and neither will be inferior to the other.
Similarly all rational theists will identify their God as an absolutely perfect God, i.e. a God than which no greater exists. Even if they are polytheists, they will have one overriding ontological God who lord over the other lesser gods.
There are a minority who believe in lesser gods and deities due to ignorance or for whatever reasons they accept their god[s] to be inferior.
But the ultimate is God per se Must be an ontological God, i.e. an absolutely perfect God than which no greater can exists.
- jerlands
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Re: Who Is God?
So who is it that's imposing 'absolute perfection' on "God?" No matter.. isn't the notion of absolute perfection equivalent to absolute completeness?Spectrum wrote: ↑March 1st, 2018, 2:18 amNote it is not merely 'perfection' but absolute perfection, i.e. an absolutely perfect God - the ontological God which is, a God than which no greater exists.jerlands wrote: ↑March 1st, 2018, 1:38 am Ok.. so I see issues. The first is the notion of perfection. My understanding of perfection is 'completeness' and if I ride with that I perceive the universe as complete possibly except for my understanding. The second is the notion of other gods. If there is only one "God" (being the creator) then anything else is either part of this "God" or a reflection of.
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What is it in creation that's lacking?
Where in the Quran does it proclaim a different "God" than the "God" of Abraham? It doesn't. Aside from that... "God's" attributes are described through his name and I think the Quran has 99 names for "God" and the Bible has 18 or so names for "God". The point however is the name of "God" is understood in context. Both teachings declare One (1) God.Spectrum wrote: ↑March 1st, 2018, 2:18 am The Islamic God proclaimed itself in the Quran as an ontological God, i.e. an absolutely perfect God than which no greater exists - Allah-u-Akbar.
The Quran also claims the God reflected in the Bible and NT [& other gods] is a corrupted and inferior God, thus has to be subservient to Allah.
What you've conjured up no, is not acceptable.
This is illogic since there is not declaration of a different "God" in the Quran. The teaching apparently given to Muhammad is a teaching for Islam and I think that an important note.
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You do realize the Bible is complicated composite using what appears to be from a number of sources? The Biblical "God" seems to have arisen from the Egyptian conception Ptah and the relationship with Egypt in the Bible is very profound.Spectrum wrote: ↑March 1st, 2018, 2:18 am Similarly all rational theists will identify their God as an absolutely perfect God, i.e. a God than which no greater exists. Even if they are polytheists, they will have one overriding ontological God who lord over the other lesser gods.
There are a minority who believe in lesser gods and deities due to ignorance or for whatever reasons they accept their god[s] to be inferior.
But the ultimate is God per se Must be an ontological God, i.e. an absolutely perfect God than which no greater can exists.
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- jerlands
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Re: Who Is God?
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Re: Who Is God?
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