Who Is God?
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Re: Who Is God?
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Re: Who Is God?
Yes, being out of touch with the flesh and blood animals we are as well as care for each other rather than a god.By overlooking man do you refer to being too other-worldly like ,as you said, Thales falling into a hole?
Yes, that too. And the gods we make are often in various ways at odds with us, as, for example, with Paul seeing things that are natural to human beings as sinful.Or do you mean by overlooking man that man makes gods and religions?
I have no need of religion, but I recognize that it can enrich the lives of others. It can also impoverish life, depending on beliefs and practices. Theology often seems to be about fooling oneself into knowing what one does not know, even when professing not to know, or claiming that God cannot be conceived while arguing for a particular conception, or claiming that God is ineffable while writing volumes effing God.However I do long for a reasonable religion and I try to seek for it; now and again something makes sense.
I’m sorry I made that up. It was a lie, or, in order to make myself seem more honest, what Zen calls an expedient. The intent was not to deceive. It was not the experience but what I claimed to have experienced. It followed DM's claim about consciousness revealing things that go beyond the limits of science. I was having a bit of fun, testing him to see how he would respond when I told him about consciousness giving me access to what happened at the beginning, something out of nothing. I explained what I was doing above:I recall what you and Greta say about peak experiences, and it seemed to me that the effect of these for you was to combine mood and motivation.
Parallel to this argument was my fabrication of what consciousness gave me access to. Predictably, the exchange followed the same pattern. You readily accept what is alleged to be revealed in consciousness except when it is at odds with your belief in a first cause. If consciousness points to God then reason must take a backseat, but if consciousness contradicts your argument for a first cause then consciousness must take a backseat.
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Re: Who Is God?
You’ve already let the horse out of the barn. It would be very hard for you to convince anyone who has had the misfortune of being on the receiving end of one of your attacks that your perspective is conducive to peaceful coexistence. But that's about you, isn't it?I would like to see more opinions regarding the contrast between the two posts, specifically, which perspective is more conducive to peaceful coexistence and human progress and why.
And that is why I prefer Socratic philosophy, know yourself, over metaphysical speculation and the creation of reality where one looks away from himself.
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Re: Who Is God?
Whoa... What's this thing about Paul and natural things to human beings as sinful?
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- Sy Borg
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Re: Who Is God?
Oh come now, Fooloso - is there are more peaceable soul online than our DM? A veritable fount of civility and understanding!Fooloso4 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2018, 9:10 pm DM:
You’ve already let the horse out of the barn. It would be very hard for you to convince anyone who has had the misfortune of being on the receiving end of one of your attacks that your perspective is conducive to peaceful coexistence.I would like to see more opinions regarding the contrast between the two posts, specifically, which perspective is more conducive to peaceful coexistence and human progress and why.
Also ... OMG! Whoa! You must have committed a great faux pas! Only the worst of philosophical sins might have invoked the likes of Kant, Chomsky, Wittgenstein, Hume, Plato, Searle, Aristotle, Nietzsche, Nagel, Dennett, Chalmers, Singer to utter such exhortations (which is perhaps why those expressive terms appear so infrequently in their work).
What of eternal values in the early universe? It's not as though morality and compassion were to be found in the hot plasma.
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Re: Who Is God?
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Re: Who Is God?
I take it that it's not the question I have just asked you in the post above, which you have continued not to attend. Might you be afraid? Might such vacuous provocations be clichéd, childish, tiresome and well worth ditching? I think they might be.
Logically, if "eternal" values emerged with intelligent life then they aren't "eternal".
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Re: Who Is God?
This doesn't make sense. Emergence is coming into view which is exactly how intelligence brings the unknown to be known. Or is intelligence standing firmly on the ground with the mind witnessing the heavens above?
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Re: Who Is God?
What doesn't make sense to me is the idea of intelligence amongst all that nucleated plasma. Maybe there was? I don't know, no one does, However, it does not appear to be the case. Rather, the universe has grown and developed in a way not miles from the way its inhabitants grow and develop. Nature extends far beyond our atmosphere.
Then again, I'm a bit of a m̶a̶d̶ ̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶d̶o̶g̶ ̶l̶a̶d̶y̶ panvitalist so the idea of a cold and dead cosmos may just be our perspective within emerging living systems. At this stage those systems have not shown any signs of intelligence or consciousness (away from the Earth) but that too may be a perspective effect due to the relatively tiny scale of our explorations so far, along with our situation on the inside.
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Re: Who Is God?
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Re: Who Is God?
However, what I see is you retreating into oddly melodramatic gestures rather than giving straight answers to straightforward questions.
The irony is that I am genuinely interested in the idea that we live within a larger consciousness, or consciousnesses. So one logically figures that educated theists might have some interesting ideas about it. So I test those ideas, because it would be naive to take their word for it. Then they always become angry and start intimating that I have some fundamental flaws as a human being and that's why I supposedly don't understand.
Yet, if a person is secure in their position, why would they do that? Why wouldn't they patiently answer questions?
It should not be a big deal: if there is intelligence intrinsically in the universe, then it's reasonable to ask what's going on with that posited general universal intelligence before intelligent life occurred? If, say, John Hagelin - who believes in a fundamental intelligence to reality - was on the forum he would have patiently explained his ideas about the Unified Field rather than stonewalled and implied fault with the questioner. That's what I would expect from someone who is confident in their position - answers and questions rather than gripes.
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Re: Who Is God?
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Re: Who Is God?
I think you have to take eternal values more seriously. Eternal values depend upon eternity which is that those values(and everything else, the fall of the sparrow, each terrible conflict, every kind word, the nucleated plasma, and so on) were always going to happen; God had all these events up his sleeve so to speak.Greta wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2018, 2:38 amWhat doesn't make sense to me is the idea of intelligence amongst all that nucleated plasma. Maybe there was? I don't know, no one does, However, it does not appear to be the case. Rather, the universe has grown and developed in a way not miles from the way its inhabitants grow and develop. Nature extends far beyond our atmosphere.
Then again, I'm a bit of a m̶a̶d̶ ̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶d̶o̶g̶ ̶l̶a̶d̶y̶ panvitalist so the idea of a cold and dead cosmos may just be our perspective within emerging living systems. At this stage those systems have not shown any signs of intelligence or consciousness (away from the Earth) but that too may be a perspective effect due to the relatively tiny scale of our explorations so far, along with our situation on the inside.
The weakness in most people's eternal values arguments is that they arrogantly specify the values exactly as if from an engineering blueprint that mentions every rivet.
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Re: Who Is God?
That is funny. I have repeatedly asked you to answer questions regarding claims that you have made, but nary and answer. Do you really think that I would choose your perspective over the one I described in opposition to it?I don’t know who’s more scared to answer the question, Greta or Fool.
It was just a matter of time. We’ve seen this behavior many times before.Egads. I quit. I can’t bear watching this foolishness any longer.
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