Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Post Reply
Spectrum
Posts: 5161
Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?

Post by Spectrum »

Whenever I asserts Islam has loads of evil elements in its holy texts, the usual counter is 'What about the Bible' which is worst.

Here is an explanation on the position in terms of the undeniable loads of evil elements in the OT, BUT..;
Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?
By: Raymond Ibrahim
...
Old Testament violence is an interesting case in point. God clearly ordered the Hebrews to annihilate the Canaanites and surrounding peoples. Such violence is therefore an expression of God's will, for good or ill. Regardless, all the historic violence committed by the Hebrews and recorded in the Old Testament is just that—history. It happened; God commanded it. But it revolved around a specific time and place and was directed against a specific people. At no time did such violence go on to become standardized or codified into Jewish law. In short, biblical accounts of violence are descriptive, not prescriptive.

This is where Islamic violence is unique. Though similar to the violence of the Old Testament—commanded by God and manifested in history—certain aspects of Islamic violence and intolerance have become standardized in Islamic law and apply at all times. Thus, while the violence found in the Qur'an has a historical context, its ultimate significance is theological.

....

In fact, far from suggesting anything intrinsic to Christianity, the Crusades ironically better help explain Islam. For what the Crusades demonstrated once and for all is that irrespective of religious teachings—indeed, in the case of these so-called Christian Crusades, despite them—man is often predisposed to violence. But this begs the question: If this is how Christians behaved—who are commanded to love, bless, and do good to their enemies who hate, curse, and persecute them—how much more can be expected of Muslims who, while sharing the same violent tendencies, are further commanded by the Deity to attack, kill, and plunder nonbelievers?
Read full article at;
http://www.meforum.org/2159/are-judaism ... t-as-islam

Agree?
Views?
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?

Post by Eduk »

Spectrum I was thinking to myself who has the most unreasonable views. You or Dark Matter. I find DMs views crazier but more reasonable. After all there are many good reasons to believe in a deity ( note there are no good reasons to believe a deity exists). But what good reason is there to believe Islam is both made up and immutable ( by power of God) and then hold Muslims to your personal interpretation while claiming yours is the one true interpretation (that is a mystical claim).
Unknown means unknown.
Spectrum
Posts: 5161
Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Re: Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?

Post by Spectrum »

Eduk wrote: March 7th, 2018, 4:44 am Spectrum I was thinking to myself who has the most unreasonable views. You or Dark Matter. I find DMs views crazier but more reasonable. After all there are many good reasons to believe in a deity ( note there are no good reasons to believe a deity exists). But what good reason is there to believe Islam is both made up and immutable ( by power of God) and then hold Muslims to your personal interpretation while claiming yours is the one true interpretation (that is a mystical claim).
Fanman posed a similar question;
Fanman wrote: What about the positive aspects of theism? Should we just ignore them as though there aren't any?
I have NOT denied nor ignored the positives from religion.
Note my signature below in anticipation of your question - religion is a critical necessity for the majority at the present. At present there is a net-pro over cons but I believe [as justified elsewhere] the trend is the cons are outweighing the pros towards the future.

Note his trend;

Image

which is critical since there is also a trend of the increasing easy availability of nukes and the Islamists has a lot of oil money. Also note despite the preventive measure, North Korea managed to slip through to be a nuclear nation. There is also a widening black market to get cheap WMDs.
The cocking of the trigger is Islamists are in a win-win position because MAD will not deter them as even if the Earth is destroyed totally, ultimately they will end up in paradise with eternal life [for some with 72 virgins].

The difference is while DM and other theists cling to theism for their personal selfish reason to deal with their internal inherent unavoidable existential crisis, I have a concern for the existing real threat against humanity at present and in the future.

I understand theists like DM who are into panentheism and many others posed no problem/threat to humanity, the only effective way to deal with the evils and violence is we need to deal with theism-as-a-whole and not the individual theistic beliefs.
Since there are already existing non-theists who handle the same existential problem without a God based on evil-free ideology, people like DM [not DM] can easily shift to similar non-theistic evil-free ideology.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?

Post by Steve3007 »

This has probably been done to death elsewhere, but:

If I was Christian or Jewish one thing that might trouble me would be that I've been taught that God is immutable. He does not change His mind. So if (as expressed in the OT) He once thought violence by His tribe against a rival tribe was a good idea, he must still think it.
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?

Post by Eduk »

Steve if you were a Christian it is highly unlikely, in my opinion, that you would draw that conclusion. I'm not saying your conclusion doesn't make sense but I am saying that one illogical belief can lead to another. So I suspect you would be not be for generic tribal violence now or if you were a Christian. In effect I am saying your belief in God wouldn't make much, if any, difference.
Unknown means unknown.
Spectrum
Posts: 5161
Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Re: Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?

Post by Spectrum »

Steve3007 wrote: March 7th, 2018, 6:14 am This has probably been done to death elsewhere, but:

If I was Christian or Jewish one thing that might trouble me would be that I've been taught that God is immutable. He does not change His mind. So if (as expressed in the OT) He once thought violence by His tribe against a rival tribe was a good idea, he must still think it.
Despite the issue being raised to death and countered, the question of 'What about the Bible' is always raised when one discussed the very obvious evils and violence of Islam. Thus the need for continual refresher of the issue.

Within the Quran, it is specifically stated the words [in Arabic] of Allah in the Quran are immutable, i.e. cannot be changed because the Quran was perfected by Allah [5:3]. Thus the Quran-proper at present is the verbatim words delivered to Muhammad and coming out of his mouth in the period 610-632AD.

There are no similar commands in the Bible [?].
True, whatever words God state must be immutable.
What I understand is God in the Bible focus on the principles rather than the specific words.
In this case the principles are immutable not the words.
This is why the Christians do not focus their attention on the words spoken by Jesus or Moses. In any case, it is not practical to enforce what Jesus or Moses really said from their mouths.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7914
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?

Post by LuckyR »

Your title is misleading. A better one would be: Which religion's canonistic texts contain or espouse the most violence?
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
Cosmogenes
New Trial Member
Posts: 13
Joined: February 7th, 2017, 1:23 pm

Re: Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam?

Post by Cosmogenes »

OT Judaism and Vatican Christianity of the Holy Roman Empire are not so different.
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Religion, Theism and Mythology”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021