What is Your Story?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter »

Greta wrote: April 9th, 2018, 9:16 pm My story is one of an effective Flatlander, pootling over the surface of the world from which I was spawned. Other Flatlanders like me are transforming the surface of this world, seemingly moving from a high consumption "larval phase" to a low consuming, information rich "reproductive phase", with delivery systems to distribute the biosphere's genes and memes (spores?) to other worlds, out through the "extra dimension/s" of space.
Now, that wasn't so difficult, was it?

It seems to me that your story and Fool's story, unlike Steve's, are so different from mine that there's no room for discussion.
Steve3007
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Steve3007 »

Steve3007 wrote:I quite like the fundamental interconnectedness of all things too. But that doesn't stop boundaries from being useful things.
Dark Matter wrote:That’s your story? The belief that underpins and informs all other beliefs?
No, it's not a belief that underpins and informs all other beliefs. It's just one of many thoughts. If that's what you mean by "my story" (a belief that underpins and informs all other beliefs) then I don't think I have one. I like to consider many different ideas. This for example:
Fooloso4 wrote:We live on one of billions of habitable planets in one of billions of galaxies. We are of significance to no one and nothing other than ourselves. And so, we should learn to take better care of ourselves and each other. It may be that in the not too distant future ours will no longer be a habitable planet for life forms such as ourselves, and so, we must learn to take better care of it as well. And no one lived happily ever after.
...is another thought. Quite a straightforward and factual one. The evidence suggests that it seems to be largely true.

This:
Greta wrote:My story is one of an effective Flatlander, pootling over the surface of the world from which I was spawned. Other Flatlanders like me are transforming the surface of this world, seemingly moving from a high consumption "larval phase" to a low consuming, information rich "reproductive phase", with delivery systems to distribute the biosphere's genes and memes (spores?) to other worlds, out through the "extra dimension/s" of space...
...is, it seems, a more metaphorical one that needs more "unpacking" before it can be properly examined. But both say specific things about the Earth and its inhabitants. They both appear to be grounded in things that can be observed to be true or false, as opposed to being entirely abstract.


If you (DM) want people to simply state an axiomatic principle that underpins their view of the world and if you think that there are some views of the world that differ so much from yours that no discussion is possible then I think what you might get is simply a few isolated, abstract metaphysical statements and it will end there. If I say something like "everything in the universe is connected" or if you say something like "boundaries are an illusion" then unless we're willing to unpack those statements and discuss what we mean by them, with reference to our experiences of the world as we perceive it, they will remain as isolated abstractions and (to me at least) quickly lose any potential interest that they might have had.
Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter »

I believe we all have a story that underpins and informs all other beliefs, even if we’re not conscious of it. I don’t believe we can form the first rational thought without one.
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Sy Borg
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Sy Borg »

DM, I wasn't much conscious of my story and didn't find the exercise easy, which is why it took me a while to respond.

I suppose I am basically a panvitalist, and have long felt that much maligned rocks - "poster children" for the insensate - have more going on than is usually assumed, being well within the top 1% of the most ordered and sophisticated material in the universe. Most of it seemingly consists of maelstroms of dark energy, dark matter, plasma, molecular clouds and neutrinos - which are for the most part a sorry bunch of chaotic things as compared with the complex molecular structures of rocks! The Earth in context is an extraordinary cosmic gem, from core to magnetosphere.

Another dynamic I've noticed, at a somewhat smaller scale (but still huge) is how the encapsulation of mitochondria in archaea is seemingly being (fractally) echoed by the encapsulation of humans in homes. At the moment the "mitochondria" still go out for a "swim" but in time the environment will become ever more crowded, polluted, inconvenient and dangerous and people will increasingly stay in their ever better serviced homes. In time, the "free swimming" ones will surely find it most difficult to survive, like their microbial counterparts did.

Steve, I might post some of these ideas for unpacking* when I work out more detail and clarity in them.

* A term associated with corporatespeak but Hamlet beat the suits to it:

This is most brave,
That I, the son of a dear father murder'd,
Prompted to my revenge by heaven and hell,
Must, like a whore, unpack my heart with words,
And fall a-cursing, like a very drab,
A scullion!
Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter »

I’m sorry, Greta. Ive been working on my story for so long that I forgot how difficult it must be for someone unaccustomed to encapsulating their guiding principles in words.

Our particular “story” is unique to ourselves. It’s how we come to make sense of the world and our experiences in it. It’s also a vicious circle: we naturally seek evidence for an opposing view before investing time and energy into changing our own, but we must change the way we think before we can observe the evidence. And why would we do this if we are comfortable with our way in the world? Generally speaking, we only change our story when we are forced to acknowledge that there must be more, or at least a better way of understanding.

IMV, there is a whole other universe within ourselves to explore — and the material universe “out there” is dull in comparison. We are cocreators of this universe, the one within and the one without.
Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter »

Let me say a little more about “my story,” but first I want to make it clear that no one, IMO, can live up to their highest ideals. No one. So although I have high aspirations and perhaps come across as being sanctimonious, it’s not my intent.

Greta said, “Given that our atomic nuclei are probably about as close to the stuff of the big bang as anything outside a black hole, one might say that a bit of the first source resides in every one of our atoms.” That’s true, but its more than that. In my story, every thing, every where, every when and their every possibility converge at the very core of my being. So, how did I come to make this part of my story?

I’m still working on that.
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Sy Borg
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Sy Borg »

Dark Matter wrote: April 10th, 2018, 1:37 pmOur particular “story” is unique to ourselves. It’s how we come to make sense of the world and our experiences in it. It’s also a vicious circle: we naturally seek evidence for an opposing view before investing time and energy into changing our own, but we must change the way we think before we can observe the evidence.
Yes, and it's never easy to know how objective we are, whether we are being open or unconsciously compelled to reinforce our views, so in terms of philosophy one ideally questions both their own ideas and opposing views.
Dark Matter wrote:IMV, there is a whole other universe within ourselves to explore — and the material universe “out there” is dull in comparison. We are cocreators of this universe, the one within and the one without.
I would put it another way - the nature outside of us is utterly fascinating and extraordinary and the weirdness within is simply mind blowing. None of reality is dull - that's just weariness talking.

When there is energy and motivation to engage, even a speck of dust is a wonder. Where did it come from? What was it part of before becoming dust? How did it come to be dislodged? Or did it aggregate instead? If so, what from? What are its components? Where has it travelled and for how long? What scenes might it have drifted blindly past in its travels? What is it impacting in its environment? How is the environment impacting on it? How long will it last? Will it join with something? Will it be blown to the upper reaches of the atmosphere and go out into space? If the dust speck is a skin flake (which they often are), that means a piece of me is in outer space! Might it contain dead cells from Donald Trump, Kim or Vlad? Does it contain atoms that once made up dinosaurs, Marie Curie or Mars? What was it before then? And before then? ...

:D
Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter »

“If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.“ William Blake
Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter »

The adage "know thyself" predates Socrates and is fundamental to philosophical inquiry; the key to knowing ourselves is knowing our particular "story," the story that informs us about oueselves and our place in the universe. The power and importance of "myth" should not be underestimated. The story or myth gives us a universe frame in which to think and relate. And because every being will always act on what they consider to be true, societies cannot cohere and prosper without one dominant myth binding it together.
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Sy Borg
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Sy Borg »

For me, a story is an optional extra. In my observations, the people who live long and happily tend to be both enthusiasts and grateful for the good things. It appears that it is most healthful to love - anything - a lover, your children, animals, gardens, places, nations, culture, sporting teams or eating. Love for whatever appears to be good for one, although the benefit of course can be outweighed if the love is directed towards that which is harmful or dangerous.
Erribert
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Erribert »

Ah, well my story is first of all to never trust statistics. That is what you are quoting with the impossibility of this universe. You know the saying “There are lies, damn lies, and statistics”.

Here’s the deal. Statistics does not apply to a singularity; that is a population of one. That’s just how the math works out. Population statistics have a denominator of n-1. Zero doesn’t work very well as a denominator for how can one divide a number by the absence of number. Yes, zero is not a number, it denotes no number at all. I don’t mean zeros like in ten, obviously, just zero. So anyway, we have a universe of ONE. Therefore no amount of statistics can be applied to its existence or non-existence.

And yes, statistics do not apply to you or me personally (population of one). So ignore it when a doctor or a preacher applies statistics to you. It is literally impossible because of the rules of statistics. This makes statistics pretty useless for important stuff to you or me.

Mathematicians have shown with their magic that, yes, everything does cancel out. Even that zero point energy. So, I appreciate your story, not only mathematically, but philosophically.

My story? Well, I call it “The Never Ending Story”. I change my mind daily when it comes to those kinds of things. My story is an adventure/romance/sci-fi/tragedy/fiction all wrapped in one. My story is that all of this has to be an unfathomable mystical experience; what else could we call it? I suppose we could call it cheese too...

I’ll probably change my mind tomorrow. :-)

Thanks for the question. It helps me figure out where I am at in these series of moments. All the billions of them that went by while typing my confession.

Cheers
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SBE
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by SBE »

There are many beliefs that claim to be the only way to salvation and their God is the only true God. There is so much confusion and righteous banging on the desk that makes me walk away from all mainstream explanations of the divine. So, what I use as a test in discerning what could be true, is the belief must promote the betterment of all, while encouraging growth through freedom to make your own choices and learn by your mistakes.

Low and behold there is a philosophy of creation that does all of this and more. This philosophy has a major difference though, and can feel strange at first but after some contemplation makes a whole lot of sense. And that is the creator is not a masculine God our father but instead the Mother Goddess the Creatrix of the universe. The universe could be logically considered feminine in nature as we see the feminine creating life here in our lives. One might say life needs to be seeded by a male to complete the task but that is not the case in the beginning of most species. Androgyny is said to exist before the separation of sexes and all androgynous beings, even though possessing both female and male traits are considered female because they can create life on their own. There are many more reasons why this philosophy rings true to me, as it promotes our individual Sovereignty thus reminding you of you infinite worth.

While the patriarchal god system we are used to promotes through religion, royalty, the elite and government the notion that authority is superior and we are inferior and must obey their dictates even if we think it’s immoral to do so. They teach that morality can only come from the obedience to authority.

http://wespenre.com/2/creation-of-universes.htm
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Sy Borg
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Sy Borg »

Erribert wrote: May 1st, 2018, 2:46 am Ah, well my story is first of all to never trust statistics. That is what you are quoting with the impossibility of this universe. You know the saying “There are lies, damn lies, and statistics”.

Here’s the deal. Statistics does not apply to a singularity; that is a population of one.
I very much trust statistics over lying, delusional, confused, manipulative humans any day.

That is why I worked in statistics for some years - because I could better understand organisations by analysing their metrics than implicitly believing to self-serving drivel from managers and staff. Humans are only useful as information givers if they are truthful, or if their lies are sufficiently transparent.

In today's Trumpian "post fact" world where truth is nothing more than an inconvenient and meaningless word, more people are lying as they routinely see lack of accountability at the highest levels. Thus, you NEED statistics to call lying people to account.

If we stop accepting statistics then we only have stories - unaccountable stories that are usually lies.
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LuckyR
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by LuckyR »

Erribert wrote: May 1st, 2018, 2:46 am Ah, well my story is first of all to never trust statistics. That is what you are quoting with the impossibility of this universe. You know the saying “There are lies, damn lies, and statistics”.

Here’s the deal. Statistics does not apply to a singularity; that is a population of one. That’s just how the math works out. Population statistics have a denominator of n-1. Zero doesn’t work very well as a denominator for how can one divide a number by the absence of number. Yes, zero is not a number, it denotes no number at all. I don’t mean zeros like in ten, obviously, just zero. So anyway, we have a universe of ONE. Therefore no amount of statistics can be applied to its existence or non-existence.

And yes, statistics do not apply to you or me personally (population of one). So ignore it when a doctor or a preacher applies statistics to you. It is literally impossible because of the rules of statistics. This makes statistics pretty useless for important stuff to you or me.

Mathematicians have shown with their magic that, yes, everything does cancel out. Even that zero point energy. So, I appreciate your story, not only mathematically, but philosophically.

My story? Well, I call it “The Never Ending Story”. I change my mind daily when it comes to those kinds of things. My story is an adventure/romance/sci-fi/tragedy/fiction all wrapped in one. My story is that all of this has to be an unfathomable mystical experience; what else could we call it? I suppose we could call it cheese too...

I’ll probably change my mind tomorrow. :-)

Thanks for the question. It helps me figure out where I am at in these series of moments. All the billions of them that went by while typing my confession.

Cheers
Statistics are just numbers, they aren't the problem, rather it is the misrepresentation of statistics that leads to fooling people.
"As usual... it depends."
Speedyj1992
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Speedyj1992 »

In a few words, my story is one of sadness and failure, at least at first. But then redemption came, and I've become a new person since.

The longer version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVfGltyJK8Q&t=482s
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