Read Paul Tillich's The courage to Be.
What is Your Story?
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Re: What is Your Story?
Yes. Myths are social constructs.Myths are powerful because they speak to what is already there in the recipient, no matter how deeply it is hidden by the mind's meandering.
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Re: What is Your Story?
Yes. Myths are social constructs. Society is already there in the recipient from the monent of birth to the moment of death.Myths are powerful because they speak to what is already there in the recipient, no matter how deeply it is hidden by the mind's meandering.
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Re: What is Your Story?
It isn't so much what I want you to say, I thought you might have some questions or an objection which might lead to a better understanding.Dark Matter wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 5:34 pmEverything. It’s a story any unimaginative third-grader could write.Georgeanna wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 4:22 pm
I was moved enough by it to respond. Which aspect of his account did you find 'dreary and uninspiring' ?
What else do you want me to say? That your story isn’t really a story in a mythological sense?Is that all you have to ask of me in relation to my reply ?
Earlier you said:
'I don’t want to debate. I want to learn from what others believe'.
So, that was my contribution, for what it is worth.
If there is no value to it in this forum, fair enough.
However, I am interested in the stories we tell ourselves; myths and inherited stories can reveal much but not all.
Of what significance are they if not concerned with care in organizing our values ?
Interpersonal dialogue is important.
If we care enough we don't shut it down with insults. Or with lack of imagination.
This thread is a narrative in itself, revealing on going issues.
If stuck in the emotion of dislike of another, can we ever truly listen to their view of life ?
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Re: What is Your Story?
To be frank, I think your claim to mysticism is just intellectual gaming. To claim that there is an instinct to perceive the God of the universe just as a bird instinctively builds its nest suggests that you don't understand how natural selection works. More likely is an instinct to CREATE gods as a comfort and crutch, which may assist in survival.Dark Matter wrote: ↑July 5th, 2018, 2:55 amYou wouldn't ask if you were truly as open-minded and as observant as you claim. How do birds know how to make nests without being taught? By what mechanism? Did nest-building suddenly appear or did it evolve overtime?
Myths are powerful because they speak to what is already there in the recipient, no matter how deeply it is hidden by the mind's meandering.
Besides, I have met spiritual people and, no offence, but you are obviously not in that category, hence my doubts about the veracity of your imagined communions with the the God of the universe. Lack of goodwill, patience and empathy (noting that I had to remove a glut of ad hominem attacks from your previous post to render it respectable) suggest you not a very spiritual person at all as you claim, rather a political one. The concepts of religion have always been used politically, and now this trend is increasing again as evangelical Christians like you are uniformly falling in line behind behind the neocon cause.
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Re: What is Your Story?
The interesting thing (to me) is that this is roughly how I and many other people feel about Star Wars. It's good enough fun as a summer blockbuster, Like Independence Day or Die Hard, but the characters are 2 dimensional. They're cartoons. I can't relate to them on a personal level. And the overarching themes of absolute good versus absolute evil and the all-pervading Force are not something that I can relate to. They're pure abstract.Dark Matter wrote:Georgeanna, are you moved by such a dreary and and uninspiring story as F4’s? ... It’s a story any unimaginative third-grader could write.
I think, for many people, the stories that they find moving are the stories in which fully-formed warts-and-all human beings are conjured into life. Human beings who may do various things that have good or tragic consequences but not because they are good or evil but because they are human. Even if those human beings are in situations that I will never personally be in, it helps if they are situations that it's possible for a human being to be in.
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Re: What is Your Story?
Yes.Fooloso4 wrote: ↑July 4th, 2018, 5:43 pm I started working on this before Georianna posted and DM responded. A few quick comments on that exchange:
Georgeanna:
Dark Matter:I agree that we can learn more about someone, or our selves, by observing outward behaviour.
DM, you may believe that any story that is not an otherworldly fantasy is dreary and uninspiring, but some of us find human relationships and our obligation to care for ourselves and others here and now more inspiring than what we find in the escape of fantasy. No matter how one furnishes the world of their inner life, how we behave, what we do rather than what we imagine is the touchstone of self-knowledge.Georgeanna, are you moved by such a dreary and and uninspiring story as F4’s?
Some thoughts on the self inspired by Nietzsche’s misquoting Pindar:
He omits the second part:Become who/what you are.
As with the imperativeHaving learned what that is.
it can be turned in many directions. Nietzsche’s omission is not only deliberate but telling. Who we are is what we become. As long as we live who we are is always a matter of what we will be, of what we become. But we do not become who we are from being something other than we are. There is no escaping this self-referential circle. All talk of God and transcendence is an unaware self-referential attempt to escape the circle. Such attempts are at bottom a denial of self.Know thyself
As I see it, the self is a self-constructing construct. Who we are emerges from our own narratives of ourselves. Both the stories we tell ourselves and the stories we accept about ourselves are already determined by who we are. The self emerges from what you already are and is never separate from who you are. In one sense we are always ourselves even when we are for one reason or another “not ourselves”. But the self is not a fixed, unchanging entity. This is why Nietzsche omits the second half of Pindar’s admonition. Who or what we become is open ended and, at least for some, self-directed. We should not separate the problem of becoming who we are from our self-knowledge of what we want to be.
The extent to which the self is a coherent whole is itself dependent on yourself. The self, even the most consistent and unified or whole self is a multitude, with multiple stories, that wax and wane. Which voices are the loudest and which voices we are attentive to, what is of concern to us, what makes a difference to us, says something about ourselves in a double sense. On the one hand, it is a reflection of ourselves, but on the other, formative for who or what we wish to be or not be, that is, for what we become.
Nietzsche says he tests or sounds various claims about who he is in order to see whether they ring true to him. It is a mode of self-examination. He is in this sense being true to himself, his own authority as to who he his, something for which no one can stand as as a higher authority. But what is true in his case is not true in all cases. Some simply prefer to be told who or what they are, and, of course, that is part of the story of who they are.
Some are passive, dreary and unimaginative accepters of inherited dogma or a comforting story of absolutes.
Some are unlikely to question or examine their own behaviour in relation to their stated belief system.
I agree with the multidimensional story of self. Which voices do we listen to, or dismiss, has an effect on personal development for better or worse.
Interpersonal dialogue, internal and external, can drive you crazy and confused.
This is where an informed and experienced guide can help clarify and keep thoughts on track.
This is the benefit of direction from others as an aid in reflection.
So, being shown how to examine self and others is part of an ongoing story.
Some might find this dreary. I don't. Thanks.
I care therefore I become.
I just made that up. Don't tell me someone got there before me !
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Re: What is Your Story?
Someone did but I don't care to name them, it would be unbecoming to do so. And remember, you'll earn extra credit if it rhymes, e.g., "I care therefore I dare.""I care therefore I become." I just made that up. Don't tell me someone got there before me!
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Re: What is Your Story?
[vid]https://youtu.be/PSyuJHQj8PE[/vid]
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Re: What is Your Story?
And in Latin ?
Curo, ergo surgo ?
Surgo in lucem.
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Re: What is Your Story?
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Re: What is Your Story?
Many people learn their guiding myths during their childhood.
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Re: What is Your Story?
Yes, myths are social constructs, but they also inform the social structure and keep it together. When they fail, when enough people reject such myths, collapse and tyranny follow.Belindi wrote: ↑July 5th, 2018, 3:57 am Dark Matter wrote:
Yes. Myths are social constructs. Society is already there in the recipient from the monent of birth to the moment of death.Myths are powerful because they speak to what is already there in the recipient, no matter how deeply it is hidden by the mind's meandering.
True, but the tell us more than mere intellections.Georgeanna wrote: ↑July 5th, 2018, 4:00 am
However, I am interested in the stories we tell ourselves; myths and inherited stories can reveal much but not all.
They organize society's values as much as our own.Of what significance are they if not concerned with care in organizing our values ?
True, but dialogue is impossible when participants speak different languages.Interpersonal dialogue is important.
If I oppose "gay" marriage I'm a bigot or homophobe; if I'm opposed to illegal immigration I'm a racist; if I support any of Trump's policies in any way, shape or form, I'm relegated to the basket of deplorables. Do you mean things like that?If we care enough we don't shut it down with insults. Or with lack of imagination.
It certainly turned out that way.This thread is a narrative in itself, revealing on going issues.
Maybe not, but both sides can still learn.If stuck in the emotion of dislike of another, can we ever truly listen to their view of life ?
And some relate so strongly that they adopt the Jedi "religion."Steve3007 wrote: ↑July 5th, 2018, 4:29 amThe interesting thing (to me) is that this is roughly how I and many other people feel about Star Wars. It's good enough fun as a summer blockbuster, Like Independence Day or Die Hard, but the characters are 2 dimensional. They're cartoons. I can't relate to them on a personal level. And the overarching themes of absolute good versus absolute evil and the all-pervading Force are not something that I can relate to. They're pure abstract.Dark Matter wrote:Georgeanna, are you moved by such a dreary and and uninspiring story as F4’s? ... It’s a story any unimaginative third-grader could write.
I don't think a myth has to be in the realm of the possible to convey a message; in fact it may make it more difficult.I think, for many people, the stories that they find moving are the stories in which fully-formed warts-and-all human beings are conjured into life. Human beings who may do various things that have good or tragic consequences but not because they are good or evil but because they are human. Even if those human beings are in situations that I will never personally be in, it helps if they are situations that it's possible for a human being to be in.
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Re: What is Your Story?
Yes, although I presume they tend to do that as a joke, or as an attempted satirical dig at more well established religions, or some other kind of social commentary. Computer programmers and "Comic Book Store Guy" kind of people seem to find it amusing. I've not noticed it being part of a genuine spiritual connection to Jedi.Dark Matter wrote:And some relate so strongly that they adopt the Jedi "religion."
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Re: What is Your Story?
Fair enough. I myself remember, as a child, being moved by one of the hobbits (Merry or Pippin, I forget which one) having a sudden rush of empathy for that woman (I forget her name) who dressed up as a male soldier to go to war against those terrible dark forces and defended her king (I forget his name) against that big dragony thing with one of the nine riding on it. And I definitely didn't believe that hobbits or dragony things or people who were one of the nine really existed.Dark Matter wrote:I don't think a myth has to be in the realm of the possible to convey a message; in fact it may make it more difficult.
(Does anybody know what the hell I'm talking about here? I didn't just imagine this did I? It was in the book wasn't it?)
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