What is Your Story?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Steve3007
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Steve3007 »

J.R.R. Tolkien wrote:"She shouldn't die here, so fair and so desperate. At least, she shouldn't die alone!" And suddenly the slow-kindled courage of his race awoke.
From memory, I think that's roughly how it went.
Steve3007
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Steve3007 »

It still brings a tear to the eye and makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. Funny.
Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter »

Steve3007 wrote: July 5th, 2018, 1:54 pm
Dark Matter wrote:And some relate so strongly that they adopt the Jedi "religion."
Yes, although I presume they tend to do that as a joke, or as an attempted satirical dig at more well established religions, or some other kind of social commentary. Computer programmers and "Comic Book Store Guy" kind of people seem to find it amusing. I've not noticed it being part of a genuine spiritual connection to Jedi.
Sure about that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religi ... faith.html
Steve3007
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Steve3007 »

Sure about that?
Yes, pretty sure.
Steve3007
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Steve3007 »

Having been a computer programmer myself these 30 years, man and boy, I've met enough people who declare themselves to be Jedi's to see where they're coming from.
Steve3007
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Steve3007 »

From the Telegraph article:

"Norwich was revealed as the area with the highest proportion of non-religious people, with 41.5% of residents refusing to identify with a faith. The city also possesses the highest proportion of Heavy Metal followers and the 3rd highest proportion of Jedi Knights."

Say no more.
Fanman
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Fanman »

It wouldn't surprise if there are some people who are absolutely fanatical about Star Wars, adopted the “Jedi way of life” in an anecdotal sense. I don't see how it could seriously be considered as a religion as it is indisputably based upon a total fiction. I think that what George Lucas did with the Jedi philosophy is closely related to Buddhism, in the sense that both have a similar methodology, peaceful living (monk-like) devout people who intimately relate to nature and spirituality as a way of life, seeing things in the sense of a fundamental “oneness”, but who are also exceedingly well trained warriors.

I tend to agree with Steve though, I can see people adopting excerpts the Jedi way of life, because they see some wisdom in the way that “Jedi's” conduct themselves in the films, because they admire the narrative of the “Jedi order”, or because they do so as a social thing with like minded people - like a cosplay fan thing. I don't think that anyone would seriously consider themselves to be a Jedi knight or view “the force” as something that is real, but you never know eh.
Theists believe, agnostics ponder and atheists analyse. A little bit of each should get us the right answer.
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Mark1955
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Mark1955 »

Fanman wrote: July 5th, 2018, 3:54 pmI don't see how it could seriously be considered as a religion as it is indisputably based upon a total fiction.
Some of us might argue that that's the first prerequisite of a religion. If it were based on evidence and logic you wouldn't need faith.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.
Fanman
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Fanman »

Mark1955
Some of us might argue that that's the first prerequisite of a religion. If it were based on evidence and logic you wouldn't need faith.
Fair point.
Theists believe, agnostics ponder and atheists analyse. A little bit of each should get us the right answer.
Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter »

Our brains operate in a way that the most real thing is the meaning of something. What Rey feels here is what most people feel and is as far as they carer to look.
Fooloso4
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Fooloso4 »

DM:
Yes, myths are social constructs, but they also inform the social structure and keep it together. When they fail, when enough people reject such myths, collapse and tyranny follow.
Tyranny is not the result of the absence of myth, it is the acceptance of a mythology in which a particular individual or group of individuals who offer simplistic solutions to complex problems are elevated to the stature of saviors and heroes. Such myths always rely on a scapegoat and a “man of the people” who will return us to a golden age that never existed. So strong is the belief in this mythology that almost anything these heroes do that goes against their professed beliefs and values is brushed aside because of the promised pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Sinclair Lewis is often cited as saying:
When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.
Georgeanna:

Interpersonal dialogue is important.
DM:

True, but dialogue is impossible when participants speak different languages.
We are capable of learning different languages. The problem is a matter of temperament and ideology not linguistics. Dialogue is not impossible, only difficult. It requires hard work and the ability to distance yourself from your own convictions long enough to attend to what the other person is saying.
Georgeanna:
If stuck in the emotion of dislike of another, can we ever truly listen to their view of life ?
DM:
Maybe not, but both sides can still learn.
I take Georgeanna’s point to be that such emotion stand in the way; that for our own sake and the sake of others we need to find some distance in order to think and speak and listen carefully and rationally to each other. If there is something to be learned from truly listening it is that we can and should change something about ourselves when it reaches the point where we can no longer listen because our dislike of another closes us off. This is true not only here but with what is going on in our increasingly polarized societies. I have seen both here and elsewhere the truth or value of a statement measured by who it was who said it.

Some of us yearn to find the ‘Logos’, but others put more of an emphasis on dialectic (dialogic). Instead of relying on the Word (in whatever form it is found), with the practice of dialectic those we are in discussion with serve as a mirror or sounding board for our own words. When dialogue breaks down there remains only words that stand apart and against those of others, words that separate us, words that must be protected and defended lest they appear weak and questionable. The very thing that may help us expand the self-referencial circle is closed off. We close ranks against others who do not see things as we do and rather than question the way we see things we defend it at all costs. So, rather than dialogic being for the mutual benefit of those involved, there is a competition of us against them. The battle lines are drawn and one comes to think it necessary to be a knight defending the truth, the light, the Force against the enemy.
Fanman
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Fanman »

DM,
Our brains operate in a way that the most real thing is the meaning of something. What Rey feels here is what most people feel and is as far as they carer to look.


Hmm, I think that way we assign meaning to things is based upon our interpretations or world-views. In the sense that some people find meaning in religion and others don't see it as having any meaningful significance in their lives. That said, something doesn't have to be real for us to assign meaning to it, we can find meaning in things that are fictions. It is the job of film directors to present films in a way that people can relate to and the same can be said of the religious narratives, so no matter how far reaching, beyond the norms or extraordinary the characters are, they still experience the human condition in ways that we can relate to and empathise with, hence even the strongest characters have a weakness. So we may find meaning in what Rey is feeling, but the sober truth is that Daisy Ridley is just acting. I think that our dispositions effect how we relate to characters and narratives, and where we find meaning.
Theists believe, agnostics ponder and atheists analyse. A little bit of each should get us the right answer.
Dark Matter
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Joined: August 18th, 2016, 11:29 am
Favorite Philosopher: Paul Tillich

Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter »

Fooloso4 wrote: July 5th, 2018, 6:33 pm DM:
Yes, myths are social constructs, but they also inform the social structure and keep it together. When they fail, when enough people reject such myths, collapse and tyranny follow.
Tyranny is not the result of the absence of myth, it is the acceptance of a mythology in which a particular individual or group of individuals who offer simplistic solutions to complex problems are elevated to the stature of saviors and heroes. Such myths always rely on a scapegoat and a “man of the people” who will return us to a golden age that never existed. So strong is the belief in this mythology that almost anything these heroes do that goes against their professed beliefs and values is brushed aside because of the promised pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
I alluded to that earlier.
We are capable of learning different languages. The problem is a matter of temperament and ideology not linguistics. Dialogue is not impossible, only difficult. It requires hard work and the ability to distance yourself from your own convictions long enough to attend to what the other person is saying.
Sorry, but you haven't a clue about what I meant. It seems to me you live too much in the head. The problem is NOT a matter of temperament and ideology or even linguistics. It goes much deeper than that. Watch the last video I linked to. :wink:
Dark Matter
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Joined: August 18th, 2016, 11:29 am
Favorite Philosopher: Paul Tillich

Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter »

Fooloso4 wrote: July 4th, 2018, 5:43 pm
DM, you may believe that any story that is not an otherworldly fantasy is dreary and uninspiring, but some of us find human relationships and our obligation to care for ourselves and others here and now more inspiring than what we find in the escape of fantasy. No matter how one furnishes the world of their inner life, how we behave, what we do rather than what we imagine is the touchstone of self-knowledge.
Thank you for that. That's a much colorful myth than the last one, and much more informative. It says a lot about your perspective.
Belindi
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Belindi »

I agree that myths can be and often are stories set in fantastic environments.

Dark Matter wrote:
Yes, myths are social constructs, but they also inform the social structure and keep it together. When they fail, when enough people reject such myths, collapse and tyranny follow.
That's true. Here is a danger that the very widely received myth will be understood as literally true dragons and all and, what is actually dangerous, that the widely received myth is pernicious as for instance the Nazi myth of white superiority. One safeguard against a pernicious myth is a society with various myths a multi ethnic society. Not a melting- pot but a tolerant mixture.
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