Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Alias
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by Alias » June 2nd, 2018, 10:53 am

Spectrum wrote:
June 2nd, 2018, 12:01 am
I have never linked religion-in-general to violence and other evils. I have always claimed religions like Buddhism, Jainism. Taoism are not evil at all.
So --- the billions of people who practice those religions have no "lust" and no link to the deepest DNA of reptilia?
And of course, the Japanese would never commit atrocities?
Christianity and Hinduism has some elements of evil but not significant.
Crusades, African slavery and South American conquests are insignificant evils, as are the massacre of Tamils, Sikhs, Dalit and Muslims in India.
There are all sorts of evils i.e. secular and religious based which must be addressed by humanity but to topic in this forum we are dealing with only religious related evils and its link to basic instincts.
I understand.
a self-contained conclusion, i.e. if no X, then no Y.
A fox got into the hen-house and killed four of my chickens.
If i kill all the foxes, nothing will kill my chickens.
All the foxes are dead.
A coyote got into the hen-house and .....
We're not talking about coyotes! Only foxes!
Got it.

Spectrum
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by Spectrum » June 2nd, 2018, 10:24 pm

Alias wrote:
June 2nd, 2018, 10:53 am
Spectrum wrote:
June 2nd, 2018, 12:01 am
I have never linked religion-in-general to violence and other evils. I have always claimed religions like Buddhism, Jainism. Taoism are not evil at all.
So --- the billions of people who practice those religions have no "lust" and no link to the deepest DNA of reptilia?
And of course, the Japanese would never commit atrocities?
Note you have to separate the people [religionists] from the ideology and deal with them separately and in combination in context.

Religionists
DNA wise ALL humans has the potential for the religious 'lust' but that is potential is not activated in some.
Where the 'lust' for religion is activated in the majority, the driving force of that 'lust' comes in degrees, say 1/100 to 100/100.
Generally per 80/20 rule, 20% of the religious has >80% degrees of lust.

The Religion/Ideology
When I claimed religions like Buddhism, Jainism. Taoism are not evil at all, it meant these religions do have terrible evil elements in their religious texts that inspire the 20% of evil prone to commit evil.
Christianity and Hinduism has some elements of evil but not significant.
Crusades, African slavery and South American conquests are insignificant evils, as are the massacre of Tamils, Sikhs, Dalit and Muslims in India.
Here is where you conflate the believers as humans with the ideology.
Christianity and the major Hindu religions [Ahimsa, e.g. Ghandi] has an overriding pacifist maxim. Jesus command Christians to love their enemies. Did Jesus every command Christians to kill in his name or God's name? Note the OT is abrogated by the NT.
Have you heard or read of any Christian shouting something like Jesus-u-Akbar when they kill someone?

The crusades were carried out [due to desperation and defensive actions] by Christians who had strong lusts i.e. >80% on their own Will and not based on the commands of Jesus.
There are pedophiles, rapists and murderers within the Christian community, but their evil acts are not inspired by Jesus or the NT.

Whatever evils from Christianity are not that significant, in terms of hindering Science with their creationist views, abortion issues, and other minor evils.

In contrast, Islam (Quran) Allah and 'Muhammad' in a very major part explicitly command Muslims to commit evils as a divine duty against non-believers culminating in terrible evils like the below;
Image
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

Alias
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by Alias » June 3rd, 2018, 1:44 am

Pick your cherries however you will, the proposition in the OP is fatally flawed.

Karpel Tunnel
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by Karpel Tunnel » June 3rd, 2018, 4:11 am

Alias wrote:
June 3rd, 2018, 1:44 am
Pick your cherries however you will, the proposition in the OP is fatally flawed.
Honestly, the weirdest thing is that of the primal drives, he chooses lust (rather than fear or aggressive drives (say those that arise in competition for resources, defense of the body, or in hunting), while in a context where Islam is the big bad one because it is more violent.

Why would someone demonize the sexual drives, when in fact it seems clear that other drives are the ones, if any, that lead to the main problems he judges Islam with?

Why do we have a non-religious person demonizing human sexual drives?

Haven't we had enough history of religious groups doing this?

What primal drive is driving the demonization of sex?

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by ThomasHobbes » June 3rd, 2018, 5:12 am

One leads to fun and reproduction.
The other leads to oppression and death.

Justintruth
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by Justintruth » June 26th, 2018, 10:52 am

Yes, for example religious orgasm involves more of the upper body and head. And there is the vox dei which is mostly absent from sexual lust. The term “sexual lust” is itself ambiguous and can refer to any sex involving genitalia or else any sex that is profane. In some readings “religious lust” is a contradiction in terms.

A good look at the beatific poets can reveal how these can become entwined. Especially Alan Ginsberg.

The notion that religious lust leads to wars is ridiculous. Rather it is the suppression of religious lust in fundamentalist interpretation and the will to power recognizing the propaganda power of religion that causes wars. Stalin understood this and is an example.

Spectrum
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by Spectrum » June 27th, 2018, 10:23 pm

Justintruth wrote:
June 26th, 2018, 10:52 am
Yes, for example religious orgasm involves more of the upper body and head. And there is the vox dei which is mostly absent from sexual lust. The term “sexual lust” is itself ambiguous and can refer to any sex involving genitalia or else any sex that is profane. In some readings “religious lust” is a contradiction in terms.

A good look at the beatific poets can reveal how these can become entwined. Especially Alan Ginsberg.

The notion that religious lust leads to wars is ridiculous. Rather it is the suppression of religious lust in fundamentalist interpretation and the will to power recognizing the propaganda power of religion that causes wars. Stalin understood this and is an example.
Note the perspective, I indicated religious 'lust' with inverted commas ' '.
Their forms and expressions are obviously different, but they are of the the same kind of primal force driving from deep in the brain.

It is like 'love' and 'anger' are different but both are emotions from the limbic system of the mid-brain.
When people are in love or in a state of anger they can do very terrible things. Example where love is combined with jealousy, a person can go to the extreme of killing the other lover.

The sex and religious drives are very primal and driven from deeper than the emotions. Religions provide very deep psychological security and a religious person will kill if such security is threatened. Where religious people get into groups they will go to war, note Islam's imperialism and the Christian's crusades. Note the genocides of the Armenian Christians and the recent Yazidis because those killer Muslims believed their religion Islam is threatened.

Note this,

Image

The above incidents that involved fatalities are related primarily to Islam being threatened, perceived consciously or subconsciously. Where politics and other social factors are involved they are secondary.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by ThomasHobbes » June 28th, 2018, 3:31 am

Spectrum wrote:
June 27th, 2018, 10:23 pm
Note this,

Image
Note this:

22 million have died on the roads in the same period.
BAN cars!

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by ThomasHobbes » June 28th, 2018, 3:32 am

Is there any difference between religious lust and road rage?

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by ThomasHobbes » June 28th, 2018, 3:35 am

Sexual lust has created 4 billion babies since 9/11.

Spectrum
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by Spectrum » June 28th, 2018, 5:35 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:31 am
Spectrum wrote:
June 27th, 2018, 10:23 pm
Note this,

Image
Note this:

22 million have died on the roads in the same period.
BAN cars!
Your thinking and views are very shallow and narrow in this case.

I have mentioned before, ALL premature death of humans must be addressed, investigated, and dealt with optimally.

This OP deal specifically with religious and sex issues therefore any premature deaths due to motor vehicles, drugs, opioids, cancer, diabetes, etc., are off topic.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

Spectrum
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by Spectrum » June 28th, 2018, 5:42 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:32 am
Is there any difference between religious lust and road rage?
There is significant difference.

Road rage is driven by a person's anger, i.e. a primary emotion. Note the yellow parts in the image of the brain below.

Religious 'lust' that end up with killings and evils originate and is driven by the existential drives which are very much deeper than the emotions. These are driven from the deeper red part of the brain below.

Image
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by ThomasHobbes » June 28th, 2018, 4:25 pm

Spectrum wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 5:42 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:32 am
Is there any difference between religious lust and road rage?
There is significant difference.

Road rage is driven by a person's anger, i.e. a primary emotion. Note the yellow parts in the image of the brain below.

Religious 'lust' that end up with killings and evils originate and is driven by the existential drives which are very much deeper than the emotions. These are driven from the deeper red part of the brain below.

Image
Rubbish.

Spectrum
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by Spectrum » June 29th, 2018, 2:06 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 4:25 pm
Spectrum wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 5:42 am

There is significant difference.

Road rage is driven by a person's anger, i.e. a primary emotion. Note the yellow parts in the image of the brain below.

Religious 'lust' that end up with killings and evils originate and is driven by the existential drives which are very much deeper than the emotions. These are driven from the deeper red part of the brain below.
....
Rubbish.
It is so easy and any can post a one-word response, like 'Rubbish' 'Bullsh:t' 'Nonsense' etc., to another's posts, but actually that only reveals the responder's low intellectual capacity and integrity.

Post some justified arguments against what I had stated?
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

Karpel Tunnel
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Re: Is There Any Difference Between Sexual Lust and Religious 'Lust?'

Post by Karpel Tunnel » June 29th, 2018, 7:43 am

Spectrum wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 5:42 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:32 am
Is there any difference between religious lust and road rage?
There is significant difference.

Road rage is driven by a person's anger, i.e. a primary emotion. Note the yellow parts in the image of the brain below.

Religious 'lust' that end up with killings and evils originate and is driven by the existential drives which are very much deeper than the emotions. These are driven from the deeper red part of the brain below.

Image
Well, if we are going to work with that ridiculous diagram, it seems to me road rage comes under aggression. Given that rage leads to aggression, aggression in others leads to rage (and fear). When one is aggressive one often feels rage. Clinically things like Intermittent rage disorder and rage syndrome will both be described use both rage and aggression. IOW the two things are tied together and they sure are in road rage. And even self-preservation plays a role in road rage. To varying degrees drivers are aware that this is a life threatening situation, driving that is, and so when others drive badly or dangerously, as perceived by the rager, they may be threatening the life of the rager. Of course road rage can be triggered by other things.

In any case, going by the chart we can happily put road rage in the red.

I wouldn't give that much weight, because it is a silly diagram, wildly oversimplified and the triune brain hypothesis is not so popular anymore.

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