Why doesn't god prove himself?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.

Post Number:#61  Postby Alun » July 16th, 2009, 8:13 pm

Belinda wrote:I don't understand why you winked, alun.

Hmm... and I did hesitate before putting the face in. I mean that we need faith most of the time, not just with respect to God directly. Faith in the dollar, faith in combustion engines, faith in tap water, faith in pills, and most importantly faith in people--including ourselves. I guess I winked because it also takes a lot of faith in God to think about Him teaching us--in a condescending parental kind of way--a lesson in faith by giving us so many problems to deal with apparently all on our own.

Was your whole post relevant to my wink? I'm not sure I followed it all wrt God proving Himself.
"I have nothing new to teach the world" -Mohandas "Mahatma" Gandhi
User avatar
Alun
 
Posts: 1118 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: July 11th, 2009, 8:55 pm



Become a member for less ads

Already a member? Login
 

Re: Why doesn't god prove himself?

Post Number:#62  Postby nameless » July 16th, 2009, 11:51 pm

cynicallyinsane wrote:If there is a god, why doesn't he prove that he exists? Why does he leave us without any compelling evidence of his existence?

I had a dream once.
I was quite lucid, knew clearly that it was a dream.
I was on an old railroad car; wood and leather and linseed oil and saddle soap old.
There were two people in the seat in front of Boopsie and me.
They were silently listening as I was telling Boopsie that this was my dream. She didn't believe me, 'knew' that it wasn't.
I told her that i would prove that it was my dream.
The people in front of us rolled their eyes waiting for the demonstration.
I told Boops to hold her hand aloft for a moment. I then proceeded to pass my hand right through her wrist and back out again. There was a slight 'hissing' sound.
She was stunned! Speachless!
The people in front of us saw what happened but immediately turned back around, disbelieving what they saw, and working on what might have 'really' happened more in accord with the 'reality' with which they were comfortable.
It only took a few moments for them to have 'interpreted' the 'reality' of what they saw and completely disregard and deny the actuality and the implications therefrom.
Besides, what do I have to 'prove' to people who only exist in my dream?

Perhaps, thats why.
nameless
 
Posts: 1234 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: May 13th, 2008, 9:06 pm
Location: Here/Now

Post Number:#63  Postby Juice » July 16th, 2009, 11:56 pm

Bravo nameless! The essence of realty is the essence of my realty.
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!
User avatar
Juice
 
Posts: 1997 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: May 8th, 2009, 10:24 pm

Post Number:#64  Postby Belinda » July 17th, 2009, 3:45 am

Alun my comment about not understanding why you winked related to that sentence only. The rest of my post heartily agreed with your opinion about the nature of faith.

It's a shame that 'faith' has come to mean belief in impossibilites, and/or acceptance of a system of religious beliefs.

I second that 'Bravo nameless!"A concrete example is always more readable and more explanatory than theorising. It's why whitetrshsoldier's example of building operations at the World Trade Centre worked so well. (pun permitting ) It is also why science fiction and fantasy fiction if they are good are accessible entries into philosophy.
Last edited by Belinda on July 17th, 2009, 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Belinda
Contributor
 
Posts: 13836 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: July 10th, 2008, 7:02 pm
Location: UK

Post Number:#65  Postby nameless » July 17th, 2009, 3:47 am

Juice wrote:Bravo nameless! The essence of realty is the essence of my realty.

With no boundaries, everywhere is the center.
nameless
 
Posts: 1234 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: May 13th, 2008, 9:06 pm
Location: Here/Now

Re: Why doesn't god prove himself?

Post Number:#66  Postby Martin Ekdahl » July 17th, 2009, 7:23 am

nameless wrote:
cynicallyinsane wrote:If there is a god, why doesn't he prove that he exists? Why does he leave us without any compelling evidence of his existence?

I had a dream once.
I was quite lucid, knew clearly that it was a dream.
I was on an old railroad car; wood and leather and linseed oil and saddle soap old.
There were two people in the seat in front of Boopsie and me.
They were silently listening as I was telling Boopsie that this was my dream. She didn't believe me, 'knew' that it wasn't.
I told her that i would prove that it was my dream.
The people in front of us rolled their eyes waiting for the demonstration.
I told Boops to hold her hand aloft for a moment. I then proceeded to pass my hand right through her wrist and back out again. There was a slight 'hissing' sound.
She was stunned! Speachless!
The people in front of us saw what happened but immediately turned back around, disbelieving what they saw, and working on what might have 'really' happened more in accord with the 'reality' with which they were comfortable.
It only took a few moments for them to have 'interpreted' the 'reality' of what they saw and completely disregard and deny the actuality and the implications therefrom.
Besides, what do I have to 'prove' to people who only exist in my dream?

Perhaps, thats why.


That was the best post that I have read on this forum until this date. Nameless, it's crazy, but I had exactly the same experience as you when I fell asleep last night. Reality is in the eyes of the beholder.
"The meaning with life must be to do something meaningful with your life".
User avatar
Martin Ekdahl
 
Posts: 245 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: November 30th, 2008, 11:01 am
Location: Rostock

Post Number:#67  Postby Martin Ekdahl » July 17th, 2009, 7:24 am

nameless wrote:
Juice wrote:Bravo nameless! The essence of realty is the essence of my realty.

With no boundaries, everywhere is the center.


And everyone is the center.
"The meaning with life must be to do something meaningful with your life".
User avatar
Martin Ekdahl
 
Posts: 245 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: November 30th, 2008, 11:01 am
Location: Rostock

Post Number:#68  Postby Mr. Pragmatism » July 17th, 2009, 8:31 am

Juice wrote:Bravo nameless! The essence of realty is the essence of my realty.
So you would agree with moral relativity then? Your reality, right?
Mr. Pragmatism
 
Posts: 82 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: July 10th, 2009, 4:41 pm

Post Number:#69  Postby Juice » July 17th, 2009, 1:38 pm

MP- Please tell me how it is that you came to that conclusion by my statement?
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!
User avatar
Juice
 
Posts: 1997 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: May 8th, 2009, 10:24 pm

Post Number:#70  Postby Belinda » July 17th, 2009, 2:39 pm

Juice, Mr Pragmatism can answer for himself.May I suggest however that if meanings are all subjective then there is neither objective fact nor objective good.
Belinda
Contributor
 
Posts: 13836 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: July 10th, 2008, 7:02 pm
Location: UK

Post Number:#71  Postby Mr. Pragmatism » July 17th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Close to what I was thinking Belinda. My thought process was: If each person's reality is a universe unto himself or herself, then all actions within each person's reality are subjectively moralto him to him or her. Or does this subjectivity only relate to god, and nothing else?
Mr. Pragmatism
 
Posts: 82 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: July 10th, 2009, 4:41 pm

Post Number:#72  Postby Juice » July 17th, 2009, 9:00 pm

MP-The problem there is that we do experience a shared reality as is obvious by this dialog so do we take into consideration how we respond to that reality or how that reality responds to us? Likewise if there is an observable reality that should only be of an individual concern what would the sense be to relate to it at all?

Like Socrates said about piety and the Gods. Is good only good as good does or is good as good is? (my words)
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!
User avatar
Juice
 
Posts: 1997 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: May 8th, 2009, 10:24 pm

Post Number:#73  Postby nameless » July 17th, 2009, 11:10 pm

Martin Ekdahl wrote:
nameless wrote:
Juice wrote:Bravo nameless! The essence of realty is the essence of my realty.

With no boundaries, everywhere is the center.

And everyone is the center.

Exactly! Same thing!
nameless
 
Posts: 1234 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: May 13th, 2008, 9:06 pm
Location: Here/Now

Re: Why doesn't god prove himself?

Post Number:#74  Postby nameless » July 17th, 2009, 11:26 pm

Martin Ekdahl wrote:That was the best post that I have read on this forum until this date. Nameless, it's crazy, but I had exactly the same experience as you when I fell asleep last night. Reality is in the eyes of the beholder.

Thanx, I'm glad that you could find some food for thought in there.
It certainly is!
@__@
nameless
 
Posts: 1234 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: May 13th, 2008, 9:06 pm
Location: Here/Now

Post Number:#75  Postby Belinda » July 18th, 2009, 4:08 am

Juice wrote
Like Socrates said about piety and the Gods. Is good only good as good does or is good as good is? (my words


Jesus said it too. Man is not made for the Sabbath the Sabbath is made for man.
Belinda
Contributor
 
Posts: 13836 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: July 10th, 2008, 7:02 pm
Location: UK

PreviousNext

Return to Philosophy of Religion, Theism and Mythology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Philosophy Trophies

Most Active Members
by posts made in lasts 30 days

Avatar Member Name Recent Posts
Greta 162
Fooloso4 116
Renee 107
Ormond 97
Felix 90

Last updated January 6, 2017, 6:28 pm EST

Most Active Book of the Month Participants
by book of the month posts

Avatar Member Name BOTM Posts
Scott 147
Spectrum 23
Belinda 23
whitetrshsoldier 20
Josefina1110 19
Last updated January 6, 2017, 6:28 pm EST