Do you believe in heaven?

Free choice and freewill are two different concepts, you have no ability to not react to your environment, for even an inaction is a reaction to said environment. You have free choice within a given context of alternatives, but you will react in one way or another. One must be motivated to react/act that infers cause, and environment is cause. Unless by defination free choice is freewill, freewill does not exist, again, you have no choice but react to your environment.

Apparently there is no point in discussing free will with a rock.

"Apparently there is no point in discussing free will with a rock.[/quote]

OTavern,

Even a rock is not a closed system, though perhaps close to it, but it would indeed be a one way dialogue---lol!!

I am an atheist, and i think all of this Heaven-hell is all from a man's mind.
In my opinion, we created god, we created religion. I mean, we have to find SOME explanation to things we cannot explain (yet), so we create an explanation instead, and build it on faith.
Those who had clinical deaths and said they were seeing god, heaven, hell, white, black or anything else, is just a pure glimpse of their imagination.

The curse and burden upon Jesus, Guatama, Aristotle, and many others was that their intelligence was too great for their environment. You only know their names because they were not so mismatched that they had no influence at all as is the case with so many others un-praised.

Those who cannot see the higher means by which selfless love benefits self are given to the idea of Heaven as a place to which to aspire. To the intelligent, Heaven is not a place to go to, but an accomplishment to attain for all via a manner of selfless love.

Muslim fear and Jewish selfishness are the alternatives for the lesser mind, each given to a higher order for sake of order yet both using more than serving. Real Christianity is the actual goal yet expressed as Heaven or Hell for sake of the lesser mind while not consuming that lesser mind in self interest of the order. Real Christianity is giving and accomplishing without taking.

Altruism requires higher intelligence to understand and thus is easy prey for criticism of the lower intellect. Altruism serves self by give up self, but the giving must not be with self in mind or heart. Such comprehension requires more sophisticated thought, a deeper realization and a divorce from the animal instincts of more direct self strategies.

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Altruism strips man of his inherent propelling mechanism-- his selfishness. Altruism breeds unfairness, unfairness breeds animosity, animosity of the majority brings a revolution. Government systems based on the idea of altruism only hinder the productivity and advancement of humanity.

Rational men are not going to work hard if the fruits of their labor are being redistributed for the "collective good." Altruistic social systems require men to first acknowledge the group, and then thy self. This cannot be, as I am not born of a group, but of an individual being. Therefore, I must first establish my own individuality, then can I acknowledge the group.

but do you think it's really possible?

It would be cool if there was one. We'll find out sooner or later

It depends on your view, either your view takes you down or takes you up. My view of heaven would be up, it's less crowded, more peaceful, less people there to spoil the view, but it's harder to reach. However, some people like allot of company, not allot room there for a view. I guess it's like Mark Twain said....."hell for the company and heaven the weather." Only People know how to create one of these or find the other. I guess.