God the ET

If god created the earth, it is impossible for god to have originated on earth
if a thing is something which did not originate on earth, it is by definition an extraterrestrial
therefore if god created the earth, god must be an extraterrestrial

problems? i see none

If god created the earth, it is impossible for god to have originated on earth
if a thing is something which did not originate on earth, it is by definition an extraterrestrial
therefore if god created the earth, god must be an extraterrestrial

problems? i see none

Strictly speaking, you are quite right. Quite usefully right, in my opinion. That is, we have a mindset towards the idea of extraterrestrials that is more open to discovery than we have towards other, religious ideas about God, or gods. My working hypothesis about why this is so derives from the theological arguments of C.S. Lewis. That argument stems from the thought that people are generally blinded by evil spirits, and mentally handicapped so that they cannot think sensibly about God. (Read "The Screwtape Letters) But, this is a frustration to the evil spirits becasue the same person who sees the idea of God as silly also sees the idea of evil spirits and Satan as silly. The evil spirits hate being ignored this way, and so are trying to find a way to get people to dismiss God, but believe in them. To do this, they have invented exraterrestrials (Chariot of the Gods sort of things) in which they, the demons, can disguise themselves. Then they released human minds to believe in these extraterrestrials. They are viewed skeptically by many atheists, but SETA has a measure of respectability, while people who go off to listen for God to speak are considered mentally deranged. The Satanic hope is get people worshipping extraterrestrials (actually him, Satan) while still ignoring God.

By lumping the creator God into the extraterrestrials, we can use this newfound mental freedom to establish "Contact" with God (Carl Sagan definition of contact), who can then lead us gently into teaching us His ways. If we eventually learn that He is not only extraterrestrial, but extra-universal as well, no biggie. Live and learn.

Vexed420 wrote:

If god created the earth, it is impossible for god to have originated on earth

But Tom's parents created Tom and Tom's parents originated on Earth.

My oak tree's seed created my oak tree and my oak tree originated on Earth. By the way my oak tree is self seeded , I did not deliberately plant it.

Etc.

Vexed420 wrote:

If god created the earth, it is impossible for god to have originated on earth

But Tom's parents created Tom and Tom's parents originated on Earth.

My oak tree's seed created my oak tree and my oak tree originated on Earth. By the way my oak tree is self seeded , I did not deliberately plant it.

Etc.

You're taking my argument which goes from creator originating on the created, to creator creating some random thing and origination on another random thing. Straw person argument.

Vexed420 wrote:

If god created the earth, it is impossible for god to have originated on earth

But Tom's parents created Tom and Tom's parents originated on Earth.

My oak tree's seed created my oak tree and my oak tree originated on Earth. By the way my oak tree is self seeded , I did not deliberately plant it.

Etc.

You're taking my argument which goes from creator originating on the created, to creator creating some random thing and origination on another random thing. Straw person argument.

But events on Earth are not random; not 'macro' events anyway.Events on Earth each and all necessary events.The elements of the question are 'Did God create from a blueprint or is God the creation itself'? I think you and many others assume the first premise to be axiomatic but I and many others don't.

Great discussion -- thanks. It all begins with the premises we ground ourselves in. Lots of 'ifs.' If we start with the notion (not empirically validated) that God is in all and all is in God... OR... God is Creation -->God is Not Creation --> God is MORE than Creation, then we end up in a different (both/and) camp not worried about a transcendent vs. an imminent God and still celebrating our sacred connectedness. (Lynn/Panentheist)

But events on Earth are not random; not 'macro' events anyway.Events on Earth each and all necessary events.The elements of the question are 'Did God create from a blueprint or is God the creation itself'? I think you and many others assume the first premise to be axiomatic but I and many others don't.

Great discussion -- thanks. It all begins with the premises we ground ourselves in. Lots of 'ifs.' If we start with the notion (not empirically validated) that God is in all and all is in God... OR... God is Creation -->God is Not Creation --> God is MORE than Creation, then we end up in a different (both/and) camp not worried about a transcendent vs. an imminent God and still celebrating our sacred connectedness. (Lynn/Panentheist)

I'm not sure exactly what you mean Belinda, but I think you're leaning towards a pantheistic view which I will admit pretty much destroys the argument. Other than that, I think the only way that statement could be non-axiomatic would be to completely reject the common conception of time. My own view is more pantheistic, this argument is mostly directed at the Christian god. I think the only way to counter this argument is to completely depersonalize the concept of god. Unfortunately it's very hard to argue about god with so many different definitions.

The sorts of God that are usually argued about are the creator one and the moral one.The Gods that require transcendent essences to exist no longer serve those persons who want to include science in their cognitive schemes.

The pantheists' God after Spinoza is that only one that complies with a scientific age. Besides compliance with scientific determinism, the pantheist God after Spinoza rationally allows for as much human freedom as is possible, and also allows for mercy, pity,hope, and universal morality.You cannot get better than that!