Are we all born an Atheist?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Steve3007
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Steve3007 »

Regarding Buridan's Ass: Since the ass is faced with a choice between two options whose outcome is precisely the same, nothing could be less consequential than the choice it makes. So if I was the ass I'd toss a coin or say "eeny, meeny, miny, moe...". This could also be used as an analogy for situations in which quantum randomness can be magnified and manifested in the macroscopic world. If it was a super-ass and could detect the position of each bale of hay to arbitrarily high precision then quantum fluctuations in the positions of the atoms from which the bales of hay are made would mean that they will never be exactly the same distance away no matter how carefully they're placed. So choosing the closest one would essentially be the same as choosing based on the flip of a coin.
Eduk
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Eduk »

Why does believing that you personally exist constitute empirical evidence that something can come from nothing?
I can personally think of no logical explanation for existence. But belief that I do exist means that I can't rule out some of the explanations which seem illogical.
Yes, I would say that last one is a logical error because it's a mismatching of concepts - an incorrect use of language. Unless it's a poetic metaphor of some kind.
Something coming from nothing seems like a candidate for a mismatching of concepts to me.

Something from nothing is 'a statement of a general principle that has been derived from our observations of the world'. Is a bit of a mouthful, I'm not sure that's conveying the meaning that I intending?
Unknown means unknown.
Eduk
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Eduk »

I don't get this Buridan's Ass thing. If I was an Ass presented with two identical bales of hay I would meta the problem and decide first and foremost that I would eat one of the bale's first. Deciding that it made no difference which one then I would perform a flip of a coin (mental or physical).
Unknown means unknown.
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Thinking critical
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Thinking critical »

Dark Matter wrote: June 21st, 2018, 3:42 am
Thinking critical wrote: June 21st, 2018, 1:00 am
In response to the analogy dichotomy the truth is the best response, we simply don't know.
So, the ass starves. Well, I guess that's a choice, too.
As I stated previously earlier, the analogy is weak and not an accurate reflection of reality, the ass can simply walk away, eat some grass and live happily.
Look, you started this thread by asking whether we're all born atheists. The answer is "no." The fact that you don't like the answer isn't going to change that.
I have restated my opinion in saying that there is no word to define the absence of knowledge that gods exist, thus being the position of a new born.
To be human is to philosophize, to ask questions like 'who or what is the author of all nature?' 'why is there something rather than nothing?' 'who or what is the impetus that makes the universe the way it is?'
There are many facets to being human, we are all diiifefent, some people just don't give a rats ass about these sort of questions.
We also supposes a morality: that man is a rational being and the order of nature is not an order of blind necessity, but an order infused with reason. By refusing to choose, people lose touch with the basic issues of their very existence.
First, by we I guess you mean you and your projection of how you believe everyone else thinks. Myself and I'm sure many others are under no impression that any form of reason what so ever is intertwined with nature, there is no logical line of reasoning to even assume let alone conclude that nature is anything but a blind force.
Secondly, as for your opinion that people will loose touch with the issues of there existence unless they accept and believe one of the many possibilites that attempt to explain the nature of the Universe........ This is obviously a deep issue for you, you seem to be obsessed with the idea that every one must question the reality of nature and commit to an answer or they will have some sort of issue of having a deeper appreciation of what it is to exist.
This cocky little cognitive contortionist will straighten you right out
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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Thinking critical wrote: November 9th, 2011, 7:34 pm Are we born an atheist then come to believe in god as we are educated about religion?

Or does a neonate have a cognitive predisposition to believe that a higher power must exist?

Perhaps we are born agnostic, unaware that later on in life we are given a choice?
No. To be agnostic you have to know about god so that you can say you can't know if god exists. An atheist is a person, who, for whatever reason has no belief in god.
So yeah all babies are atheists.
Eduk
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Eduk »

TH if that was the case how do you explain religion's existence? Maybe it truly was divine?
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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Eduk wrote: June 21st, 2018, 8:26 am TH if that was the case how do you explain religion's existence? Maybe it truly was divine?
What I said does not involve answering that question. Nor should it involve you asking it.
Eduk
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Eduk »

If the answer to your own question disproves itself then maybe you need to rethink the answer.
Unknown means unknown.
Dark Matter
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Dark Matter »

Eduk wrote: June 21st, 2018, 5:51 am I don't get this Buridan's Ass thing. If I was an Ass presented with two identical bales of hay I would meta the problem and decide first and foremost that I would eat one of the bale's first. Deciding that it made no difference which one then I would perform a flip of a coin (mental or physical).
Either way, Sheldon's choice has an enormous impact on his life.
Dark Matter
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Dark Matter »

Thinking critical wrote: June 21st, 2018, 7:32 am ...some people just don't give a rats ass about these sort of questions.
Correct. And so they live their lives at the level of a cockroach.
...there is no logical line of reasoning to even assume let alone conclude that nature is anything but a blind force.
That's what I said.
Secondly, as for your opinion that people will loose touch with the issues of there existence unless they accept and believe one of the many possibilites that attempt to explain the nature of the Universe.
It's not "just an opinion." The Cry for Myth was written by a well respected psychoanalyst.
Eduk
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Eduk »

Sorry DM I still don't get it. Weren't the two doors different and didn't he end up going through one of them? Not super familiar with Big Bang theory I have no idea what the setup to this 'joke' is.
Unknown means unknown.
Dark Matter
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Dark Matter »

Sorry, Eduk. I don't know how to make it any clearer.
Eduk
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Eduk »

Maybe we can start from my conception? The way I see it is that Buridan's ass is the same kind of thing as Zeno's movement paradox. In that if we have free will to choose and our choices are deliberate and conscious then it should be possible to get stuck in between two identical 'bales of hay' as in this contrived instance there is no 'reason' to pick one over the other. So I see this as an attack on free will.
But you seem to be saying one bale of hay is enlightenment and the other isn't? This makes no sense to me as in Buridan's example the bales of hay are identical? Or are you saying they are both enlightenment and we must choose one? What is to stop me flipping a coin? Also, as I said previously, Buridan seems to be questioning free will, whereas I am not sure what you are questioning? You seem to be saying we should choose one bale or we will 'starve'. But in that analogy there is no need for two identical bales, you can just have one bale?
Unknown means unknown.
Dark Matter
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Dark Matter »

I'm saying that one has no logical
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LuckyR
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by LuckyR »

I have to agree that because of a lack of thorough or adequate vocabulary that the idea of theism is part of the human condition. This is because once a child understands the relative nature of comparisons they will quickly grasp that humans are smarter, more powerful etc than this insect or that pet. It is only a single step to wonder what is smarter and/or more powerful than humans? However, if there was a species here on earth that was smarter and more powerful than humans, yet not gods in the religious sense, then the child would use that term to describe the issue and would not be required (under our current nomenclature) to invoke gods.
"As usual... it depends."
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