Are we all born an Atheist?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Misty
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Misty »

Xris wrote:Misty, Theophane. My children went to church of England primary school.During that time I tried not confuse their little minds. If they asked me a question I answered so they required to explain it to themselves.They are, I hope, spiritual but I know they have no god. I have no doubts that bringing a child up with simple information they can form a valid view. As long as we allow a child to move forward with unbiased education they have the ability to choose. I have friends who claim to be Christian but never read the bible. Can not debate their reasoning. They simply believe.

Xris,

I am sure you have wonderful children. Thank you for answering such a personal question. I appreciate your openness and honesty.

Misty
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Xris
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Xris »

Spiral Out wrote:Simply having knowledge of a common belief in a god, and choosing not to adhere to that belief, is not sufficient for an "atheist" classification. One must first acknowledge the existence of a god before one can reject it. Humans are not born as atheists, but as pure uncorrupted beings with empty minds. Atheism cannot exist without theism, and if the theism is not acknowledged then how can atheism exist?
I agree to the point you need classification.But without the belief in god there is no need to be classified. So in essence we are not aware of the concept of god so we can be classified as born atheists.
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Thinking critical
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Thinking critical »

Xris wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

I agree to the point you need classification.But without the belief in god there is no need to be classified. So in essence we are not aware of the concept of god so we can be classified as born atheists.
That is my point, newborns don't need to have "atheist" stamped on their forehead, there isn't even a need to call a newborn an atheist, however Atheism is the natural category they fall into, in relation to theistic views.
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Misty
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

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ThinkingCritical wrote: however Atheism is the natural category they fall into, in relation to theistic views.
Atheism means anti-theism, a newborn is not anti anything so atheism would not be the natural category they fall into. Newborns fall into the NO COMMENT category. No opinion and can't talk.
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Spiral Out
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

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Misty wrote:Atheism means anti-theism...
Nope. Atheism means absence of theism, just like amoral means absence of morality. But this still doesn't qualify anyone as atheist unless they first acknowledge the theism to which they do not adhere.
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Simply Wee »

We are all born agnostic. The rest is what we make believe, most of which has come true, one way or another. Make believe like a child, is good enough for me. The truth comes true before it is the truth, then flees back to where someone else will make believe. I guess.
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Thinking critical
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Thinking critical »

Spiral Out wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


Nope. Atheism means absence of theism, just like amoral means absence of morality.
Yep, that is certainly correct.
But this still doesn't qualify anyone as atheist unless they first acknowledge the theism to which they do not adhere.
This statement is true in regards to an infant has no knowledge of theism or anyone for that matter that has no knowledge of theism, would or could categorize themselves or profess themselves as an atheist, cause the term would have no meaning, I would apply to them. But You and I have knowledge of theism, we acknowledge Atheism is the absence of theism, so we can classify infants as Atheists if the question is asked.
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

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Thinking critical wrote:But You and I have knowledge of theism, we acknowledge Atheism is the absence of theism, so we can classify infants as Atheists if the question is asked.
Atheism is not an external judgment, it is a personal acknowledgement. Since the infant cannot acknowledge the theism that it is not adhering to, it cannot be an atheist.
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Misty
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Misty »

Spiral Out wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


Nope. Atheism means absence of theism, just like amoral means absence of morality. But this still doesn't qualify anyone as atheist unless they first acknowledge the theism to which they do not adhere.
What dictionary did you use?

Dictionary.com: Atheism 1) the doctrine or belief that there is no God 2) disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings 3) rejection of belief in God or gods

-- Updated Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:34 pm to add the following --
Spiral Out wrote:Atheism is not an external judgment, it is a personal acknowledgement. Since the infant cannot acknowledge the theism that it is not adhering to, it cannot be an atheist.
I agree with this post.
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Spiral Out
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Spiral Out »

Misty wrote:Atheism means anti-theism
Misty wrote:Dictionary.com: Atheism 1) the doctrine or belief that there is no God 2) disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings 3) rejection of belief in God or gods
Do you see the conflict with these two statements? An atheist allows for the theist to be a theist. When you say anti-theist you are referring to someone who seeks to deny the theist their theism, which is not atheism. Atheism is a position, not an action.

The second quote refers to atheism. There is nothing in those definitions that claims the denial of the theist their beliefs.
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Misty
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Misty »

Spiral Out wrote:Do you see the conflict with these two statements? An atheist allows for the theist to be a theist. When you say anti-theist you are referring to someone who seeks to deny the theist their theism, which is not atheism. Atheism is a position, not an action.

The second quote refers to atheism. There is nothing in those definitions that claims the denial of the theist their beliefs.
Anti means against or in opposition to something. If one goes to wiki and looks up antitheism it will be there.
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

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Thinking critical
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Thinking critical »

Spiral out wrote:
Atheism is not an external judgment, it is a personal acknowledgement.
We don't need to judge babies as atheists, it's simply an acknowledgement that results as a matter of fact. Where not projecting Atheism perse onto the baby, where just describing that the child has no belief in God so he/she falls into the category of Atheism.
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Misty
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Misty »

Thinking critical wrote:We don't need to judge babies as atheists, it's simply an acknowledgement that results as a matter of fact. Where not projecting Atheism perse onto the baby, where just describing that the child has no belief in God so he/she falls into the category of Atheism.
Even babies have different IQ's so no one really knows what a baby thinks. Maybe he/she heard Jesus loves me and likes it and wants to hear it again. If a baby cannot have a belief in God then the baby cannot have a non belief in God. Theism and atheism are cognitive decisive so others cannot put either label on a baby.
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
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Thinking critical
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Thinking critical »

Misty wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


If a baby cannot have a belief in God then the baby cannot have a non belief in God.
I guess this comes down to the interpretation of the definitions of the term atheist. I agree babies aren't born believing God does not exist. The context I am referring to is babies don't have a belief in God, it's the absence of belief that makes him/her an atheist.

Theism and atheism are cognitive decisive so others cannot put either label on a baby.[/quote]

It's not labelling a baby it's simply categorising for the purpose of the discussion. I'm not saying all babies should be labelled atheists, however in reference to the proposed question, are neonates born with a predetermined belief in God, the answer would be No, they are born with an absence of belief, hence Atheist by definition.
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Spiral Out
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Re: Are we all born an Atheist?

Post by Spiral Out »

Misty wrote:Anti means against or in opposition to something.
Yes, that's true. However, an atheist does not oppose theism, they just don't participate in it.

If one opposes, or is against, theism then they would be an anti-religious activist, who may in fact be a theist or spiritualist in that they have an underlying belief in the existence of a god or some other deity or entity, or they may be an atheist in that they simply acknowledge the theism of others. An atheist is not obligated to be an anti-religious activist.
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