Does God Exist?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Chili
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Chili »

Count Lucanor wrote:
Chili wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


What are some delusions you once had, and how did you find out you had been wrong?
Oh, sure, I was an innocent kid once and I believed in many of these superstitions: a god, the Tooth Fairy (actually a mouse named Pérez in LatAm), ghosts, UFOs and so on. But I grew up.
Not an encouraging story. Most people of intelligence use some methods or standards. They don't simply exchange one set of gut-beliefs for another one. That doesn't show a respect for logic or experience.
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Count Lucanor
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Count Lucanor »

Dark Matter wrote:
Count Lucanor wrote:Yeah, we already learned a lot from Father Barron's video: the god delusion is still hanging from medieval thinking.
And you still imagine he's talking about a big man in the sky. :roll: What can it be but willful ignorance on your part?
Fortunately (for me), unfortunately (for you), there's no need to guess, imagine, interpret anything. It is written in plain text from your own aources. The evidence has been submitted about the absolutely nonsensical, infantile beliefs held by the most famous theologian of the Catholic Church. The man believed in heavenly hierarchies (his own words) according to what he found in the Bible, which he also believed to be an authority in all matters. Everything can be verified and of course, could be refuted pointing at the evidence itself. Obviously i's impossible to refute, so all we'll get to hear is this whining and the repeated reference to some defining argument of truth hidden somewhere in an unreachable place, because it never shows up.

-- Updated October 26th, 2017, 2:16 pm to add the following --
Chili wrote:
Count Lucanor wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

Oh, sure, I was an innocent kid once and I believed in many of these superstitions: a god, the Tooth Fairy (actually a mouse named Pérez in LatAm), ghosts, UFOs and so on. But I grew up.
Not an encouraging story. Most people of intelligence use some methods or standards. They don't simply exchange one set of gut-beliefs for another one. That doesn't show a respect for logic or experience.
That's what growing up entails, I'm sure. What is not encouraging is seeing adults which have not grown up and still entertain those delusions.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
Dark Matter
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Dark Matter »

Maybe you should add the universe to that list because scientists at CERN have concluded it shouldn’t exist, either.
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Count Lucanor
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Count Lucanor »

Londoner wrote:
God is unknowable; he can only be described symbolically, because all the predicates that we might use about God have an opposite, but God has no opposite.
So good that you didn"t have to deal with St. Thomas and the Catholic church back then. You would have been signaled as an heretic.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
Dark Matter
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Dark Matter »

Count Lucanor wrote:
Londoner wrote:
God is unknowable; he can only be described symbolically, because all the predicates that we might use about God have an opposite, but God has no opposite.
So good that you didn"t have to deal with St. Thomas and the Catholic church back then. You would have been signaled as an heretic.
Quite to opposite, in fact. Aquinas would be the first one to agree.

Seriously, CL. You should learn something about what you want to criticize before criticizing it. You’re making a fool of yourself.
Chili
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Joined: September 29th, 2017, 4:59 pm

Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Chili »

Count Lucanor wrote:
Dark Matter wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

And you still imagine he's talking about a big man in the sky. :roll: What can it be but willful ignorance on your part?
Fortunately (for me), unfortunately (for you), there's no need to guess, imagine, interpret anything. It is written in plain text from your own aources. The evidence has been submitted about the absolutely nonsensical, infantile beliefs held by the most famous theologian of the Catholic Church. The man believed in heavenly hierarchies (his own words) according to what he found in the Bible, which he also believed to be an authority in all matters. Everything can be verified and of course, could be refuted pointing at the evidence itself. Obviously i's impossible to refute, so all we'll get to hear is this whining and the repeated reference to some defining argument of truth hidden somewhere in an unreachable place, because it never shows up.

-- Updated October 26th, 2017, 2:16 pm to add the following --
Chili wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


Not an encouraging story. Most people of intelligence use some methods or standards. They don't simply exchange one set of gut-beliefs for another one. That doesn't show a respect for logic or experience.
That's what growing up entails, I'm sure. What is not encouraging is seeing adults which have not grown up and still entertain those delusions.
Declaring something to be so - without giving reason nor evidence - this makes you the king of the universe. Perhaps there is no reason for an external God then.
Dark Matter
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Dark Matter »

What Londoner said is, in fact a Thomist teaching.
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Present awareness
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Present awareness »

Count Lucanor wrote:
Londoner wrote:
God is unknowable; he can only be described symbolically, because all the predicates that we might use about God have an opposite, but God has no opposite.
So good that you didn"t have to deal with St. Thomas and the Catholic church back then. You would have been signaled as an heretic.

Londoner claims that God is unknowable, and yet many claim that they know God. If you can imagine a coin with only one side, or the sound of one hand clapping, then you will know God, I suppose.
Even though you can see me, I might not be here.
Dark Matter
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Dark Matter »

Did anyone download Maps of Meaning I linked to a while ago?
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Count Lucanor
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Count Lucanor »

Dark Matter wrote:
Count Lucanor wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

So good that you didn"t have to deal with St. Thomas and the Catholic church back then. You would have been signaled as an heretic.
Quite to opposite, in fact. Aquinas would be the first one to agree.

Seriously, CL. You should learn something about what you want to criticize before criticizing it. You’re making a fool of yourself.
After the monumental embarrassment that you've been put through for foolishly serving in a golden pan the evidence that refuted your own claims (and revealing your ignorance of it), I thought that your reaction would be predictable. You know, trying to look the other way, put the chin up and place some smiley faces here and there. But I didn't know you would descend to play as a vulgar internet troll. That looks so sad, I'm starting to feel guilty.

-- Updated October 26th, 2017, 7:31 pm to add the following --

All this obtuse denial of the evident, reminded me of the perfectly delivered spoken portrait of the common delusional god believer, by Pat Condell. Astonishingly accurate:
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
Dark Matter
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Dark Matter »

:lol: Took you long enough to find that. How long ago was it posted On YouTube? 6 years? I’ve been watching his Pat’s videos for years. I agree with a lot of the things he says. I don’t believe in what he’s denying, either.
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Count Lucanor
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Count Lucanor »

Dark Matter wrote::lol: Took you long enough to find that. How long ago was it posted On YouTube? 6 years? I’ve been watching his Pat’s videos for years. I agree with a lot of the things he says. I don’t believe in what he’s denying, either.
It's a classic, along with some Dawkins and Hitchens videos. What's interesting is that it's never outdated and it even helps shedding light on the modus operandi of gullible believers like you in this thread. When he says: "...if you hear a senior clergyman (and you will), using the word transcendent to explain the nonsense he declares to believe...", that transports you right to page 69. He nails it.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
Dark Matter
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Joined: August 18th, 2016, 11:29 am
Favorite Philosopher: Paul Tillich

Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Dark Matter »

It’s never outdated because it’s always the SOSM (same ‘ole straw man). By the way, scientists have concluded the universe shouldn’t exist, either. Does that mean it’s existence is “supernatural”?
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Count Lucanor
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Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Count Lucanor »

Dark Matter wrote:It’s never outdated because it’s always the SOSM (same ‘ole straw man). By the way, scientists have concluded the universe shouldn’t exist, either. Does that mean it’s existence is “supernatural”?
Sure, it makes more sense now. Who will question now the truth of the Trinity and the heavenly hierarchy of the angelical society, so passionately defended by St. Thomas.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
Dark Matter
Posts: 1366
Joined: August 18th, 2016, 11:29 am
Favorite Philosopher: Paul Tillich

Re: Does God Exist?

Post by Dark Matter »

Rules forbid me from calling you “mentally deficient,” CL, so I’ll let Schopenhauer do it for me: "Those who don't wonder about the contingency of the world's existence are mentally deficient.“

Why? Because “Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.”
Religion is an attempt to answer the question in order that man may know how to live. (Read Maps of Meaning or Guide for the Perplexed)
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