Does God's intelligence rest on a physical platform?

The brain and the computer are platforms in the physical world for intelligence. An integral component of intelligence is the ability to compute. Humanity gained a great insight as to how this is done when logician Alan Turing invented the hypothetical Turing Machine which could break down even the most complex computation into small steps using algorithms.

A Turing Machine can replace a “one” with a “zero”, and vice versa, and move either of them by one square to the left or right. A computer is a Turing Machine. The brain is a much more powerful Turing Machine. Other natural configurations within the universe may also be capable of acting like a powerful Turing Machine; but so far we know of none.

If God exists and is all-knowing, then such a God must have intelligence. This intelligence arguably must rest on its own Turing Machine in this universe, or perhaps in a parallel universe or another dimension from which it can communicate with us.

How does this reconcile with our traditional beliefs about God? For instance, how can God be the first cause if his intelligence requires a Turing Machine based on some configuration in the physical world? Does this mean that matter and energy must have existed before God?

Who can offer a solution to this puzzle?

Cheers,

PhillipS

The brain and the computer are platforms in the physical world for intelligence. An integral component of intelligence is the ability to compute. Humanity gained a great insight as to how this is done when logician Alan Turing invented the hypothetical Turing Machine which could break down even the most complex computation into small steps using algorithms.

A Turing Machine can replace a “one” with a “zero”, and vice versa, and move either of them by one square to the left or right. A computer is a Turing Machine. The brain is a much more powerful Turing Machine. Other natural configurations within the universe may also be capable of acting like a powerful Turing Machine; but so far we know of none.

If God exists and is all-knowing, then such a God must have intelligence. This intelligence arguably must rest on its own Turing Machine in this universe, or perhaps in a parallel universe or another dimension from which it can communicate with us.

How does this reconcile with our traditional beliefs about God? For instance, how can God be the first cause if his intelligence requires a Turing Machine based on some configuration in the physical world? Does this mean that matter and energy must have existed before God?

Who can offer a solution to this puzzle?

Cheers,

PhillipS

Hello PhillipS

The fact that you compare God to a human or a machine is what misleads you to the problem of God's intelligence. Intelligence is an essential constituency of God's existence without entail any duality or multiplicity in His essence. The fact that we can distinguish between God and His intelligence is due to the power (or flaw) of our mind that can abstract certain aspects of things into separate concepts even if those aspects are united and one in the external world.

Welcome Theist.

Thanks for your post. I use the intelligence in humans and machines as an analogy to get a handle on this issue. The biological brain's neuron firings and the computer's electron flows provide the platform for the higher order functions of the mind and the computer program, respectively. There is no Cartesian duality here. The mind and the brain are part of the one whole. The issue is whether the mind of God operates from a similar platform. We only know of physical platforms for intelligence. If God's mind does not operate from a physical platform, as I suggested, then what other kind of platform is there? Perhaps the human mind is the platform? In such case, God is to be found within the human mind.

As I said there is no duality at all between God and His attributes. God is the simple, plain and absolute existence with no plurality in essence. Therefore the question about the platform of God's intelligence is inconsistent with the concept of God.

Hi Theist.

You being a theist, I can understand why you would want to stand by your belief that God has no plurality in essence.

However, If God has no anchor for his intelligence in the physical world, then it is hard to argue that any of his other attributes are anchored in the physical world. In such case, we may well ask how such a being can have any effect in the physical world at all, let alone be the creator of the universe.

If you hold that God is the creator then you have to contend with two unknowns concerning the birth of the universe, the first of which we all share. That is, just how was it done? For the universe is a physcial thing, and so its origin must have a physical cause.

Secondly, just what abilities does this supreme being have that enabled him to create the universe, when he has no connection to it structurally or through his intelligence? Those who believe that the universe created itself do not have to contend with this unknown.

Hi, PhillipS

Let me first explain the relation between goodness and perfection, and God. As I said in my last post God is the simple, plain and absolute existence with no plurality in essence. Now what are the implications of this explanation in regards with goodness and perfection?

Perfect is a characteristic of something that has no flaw or weakness. God is a perfect reality, therefore, there's no plurality in God's essence because plurality necessitates flaw and weakness. Because if God is a combination of other elements He will depend on them and a god that has any dependencies is not God. Absolute goodness is in the Absolute and Pure Existence, while flaw and weakness come from limits, contamination and combination.

So all the attributes we assign to God (such as intelligence) are not in reality components attached to His existence. There are neither parts that constitute Him, but they are different perceived attributes that we abstract from The Perfect Pure Existence.

Hi Theist.

So are you saying that all of God's perceived attributes are abstracted by humans and therefore are false due to human fallibility?

So are you saying that all of God's perceived attributes are abstracted by humans and therefore are false due to human fallibility?

If I may butt in...

"In view of the existence of so much evil, how can anyone believe in the existence of an all-good God? An all-knowing God would know that evil exists; An all-powerful God would be able to prevent it from occuring; And an all-good God would not want it to exist." Nigel Warburton

Truly if "God" is so all powerful then why does he not stop this evil? Is it because he wants us to suffer evil?

"If this is the role suffering plays, then it makes God uncomfortably close to the psychopath who throws a bomb into a crowd in order to admire the beautiful patterns created by the explosion and the blood." Nigel Warburton

Hi Theist.

So are you saying that all of God's perceived attributes are abstracted by humans and therefore are false due to human fallibility?

They are abstracted by human but are not false. The point is not to attribute humanoid implications of those characteristics to God, like assuming a platform for God's intelligence because human's intelligence requires a platform.

Hi Theist.

"So God created man in his own image."
Genesis 1:27.

It would seem that the authors of Genesis committed the same error that you are warning me about, i.e. attributing humanoid characteristics to God.


Hi Joshua McHenry,

You raised the question about how a loving , all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good God can allow evil in the world. I have asked the same question on another thread in this Forum. The stock responses from the theologians, which I find unconvincing, are:

"Evil must exist for there to be good. Otherwise, how do we know that God is doing good"

or,

"It is not for us to know what plans God has for us in the overall scheme of things."

Hello all.

As there is no evidence for or against any God or Gods, anything goes, unless the person believes in a bunch of myths, which try but fail to describe its particular deity.
Obviously there is no answer to the question, just as there is no answer for the post that asks wether God exists.
How can logic be used about a concept which is illogical?

Regards, John.

Hello Wooden Shoe. Nice to talk to you again.

On another thread you were speculating on the possibility of intelligent life existing somewhere else in the universe. If it exists, then it must have a physical platform for intelligence/mind, based on our knowledge of how our mind/brain and our programs/computers work together. What if such a platform were far superior to the human brain, even to the extent of supporting a mind approaching the power of a god? Would it be a god, and would it be capable of influencing/programming/simulating we humans here on Earth, without our direct knowledge? This is the issue I was seeking to air.

Cheers

Hi Phillips.

Taking your scenario the first question that comes to mind is the one on speed of thought and farsight.
If thought is constrained to the speed of light then it would follow that earth intelligence can not be affected except in a very general non-specific way.
Although I know enough to know it is really not possible to exclude anything about what is possible or not.
Thought in itself requires input from something, no matter whether it is located in a confined space or consists of a very widespread highly concentrated energy field, so regardless by the time a mind could respond to something on earth, there would be a time lag which would make it useless.

Regards, John.

Hi Theist.

"So God created man in his own image."
Genesis 1:27.

It would seem that the authors of Genesis committed the same error that you are warning me about, i.e. attributing humanoid characteristics to God.

Hi, PhillipS

Are you following my other thread where I extensively expose my theory of God? here's the link: onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5846

One of the main subjects I discuss there is the challenge of dehumanizing a God who has been unavoidably humanized by our lingual limitations. This phenomenon has been reflected in all religious scriptures. The reason is that prophets in their Divine mission had to (or simply chose to) use familiar human concepts to build a linguistic medium for believers to communicate with a non-humanistic God, but this also veiled many researchers who take those characteristic literally from gaining an essential understanding of God.

Hi Wooden Shoe,

Interesting comment John. I can see you have thought about this before. I concede that the distance to other solar systems precludes any blow-by-blow interaction with intelligent life there, due to limits imposed by the speed of light. But it does not preclude some kind of embedded program that led to the birth of our solar system and to life and the human mind. This is why it is a challenging task for theologians to come up with a concept of God that could intervene in all parts of the universe simultaneously. The issue is one of time. Which is why some theologians have postulated a God outside time, whatever that means.


Hi Theist.

Yes I have been following your other thread. It seems to me that if you strip all the humanoid aspects, except good,
from God then you have stripped out all those characteristics that mean something to us humans. This leaves you with a very vague concept of God, with little to recommend it over the God of Spinoza or Einstein.

Even the word "good" has humanoid connotations. We think of good in human terms. The word loses its meaning if we dehumanize it.

PhillipS