Religion's Effect on society

The original idea behind religion is slavery.

Any sort of coherent grounding for that statement at all then, maybe? Anything?

Well, if you truly have faith in a religion, then your actions are affected by it. And you cannot change what you believe in.

In Full Metal Alchemist, a false preist was using a science called alchemy to create false miracles. He used this to make the people do what he wanted because he claimed he was a messenger of god. These miracles included making statues walk, and healing injuries.

An intersting thing he did was tell one of his disciples he could bring her dead boy freind back to life. He knew he couldn't actually do that. Is this woman a slave to the religion because she thinks if she follows the rules she will get her dead loved one back? I think no, but it is a loose example of how religion can become slavery.

Full Metal Alchemist isn't real life, so is it really relevant to the idea that "the original idea behind religion is slavery"? (Nope!)
Besides, even if Full Metal Alchemist was real life, a "false priest" abusing his religious position to gain power is still irrelevant to the idea, because

a) religion is already a part of the picture so his malfeasance is not an original part of the religion
and
b) his malfeasance is not slavery, so even if FMA was real life and even if this priest was the sole inventor of the first religion in the real world, it would still not prove your initial statement.

Try again?

Invictus, the real life horror story in the news now is worse than the fiction as told by Eyes of a stranger. The story about this Congolese religion in the news yesterday and today includes similar psychological manipulation by priests of religion who do really recommend killing, murder and torture to their flocks in order to purify witches in their midst. And those same priests making a lot of money for themselvesn thereby. It is true that religion when it is perpetrated upon ignorant, slavishly credulous people by amoral priests is dangerous and ugly.

You have to realize that not everything posted will be 100% relevant. Just because FMA is a fictional example doesn't mean it won't do so something like bring up a real world example (which it did). I brought it up to ask a general question being, if a preist tells you he can bring your loved one back to life if you believe in their religion and do as they say, is that person a slave to that religion, or do they actually have a choice in the matter?

Kingcool, they may not have as much of a choice as we who have been reared in a post-Enlightenment school. However this is not to say that I cannot fairly condemn horrible religions, and even more condemn those cheating and probably sociopathic priests who perpetuate such religions.
More power to the police to weed them out!

Invictus, the real life horror story in the news now is worse than the fiction as told by Eyes of a stranger. The story about this Congolese religion in the news yesterday and today includes similar psychological manipulation by priests of religion who do really recommend killing, murder and torture to their flocks in order to purify witches in their midst. And those same priests making a lot of money for themselvesn thereby. It is true that religion when it is perpetrated upon ignorant, slavishly credulous people by amoral priests is dangerous and ugly.

...I haven't seen the story, but can you honestly say that it supports the thesis that "The original idea behind religion is slavery."?

The "original idea".

Do you think so?

I think that because atheist don't believe in God, it is obvious that they will not see any sense in religion. And even regard it negatively. But I think that religion can be benficial to society, in the sense that it can create a community of like-minded people, who are all striving towards the betterment of the community and themselves. I follow the doctrine of Christianity, but I am not a slave nor do I feel that I am under any type of constraints. I know many catholic people, and they do not ever express that they are under any type of slavery or constraints.

In all the systems of society i.e. - the police, the government, the health system, schools etc... There are corrupt individuals who bring the system into disrepute. However, this does not necessarily mean that the system itself is at fault. It is the same with religion - priests who abuse there position of authority should face punishment for there actions, but this does not mean that religion as a concept is 'bad' or enforces slavery. The concept of Christianity, is that it sets people free from sin; not that it enslaves them, what does it enslave people to? Furthermore, we have a free choice if we want to believe in God or not, and if we want to follow a religion or not.

Kingcool, they may not have as much of a choice as we who have been reared in a post-Enlightenment school. However this is not to say that I cannot fairly condemn horrible religions, and even more condemn those cheating and probably sociopathic priests who perpetuate such religions.
More power to the police to weed them out!

The problem with that is most peoples defenition of a horrible religion is different. For some Christians, all other religions and even sects of their own religion are horrible. Not only that, but some people radicalize their religion and makes the world see that reliopgion for something it's not. Like Islam.

-- Updated March 3rd, 2012, 10:21 am to add the following --

I think that because atheist don't believe in God, it is obvious that they will not see any sense in religion. And even regard it negatively. But I think that religion can be benficial to society, in the sense that it can create a community of like-minded people, who are all striving towards the betterment of the community and themselves. I follow the doctrine of Christianity, but I am not a slave nor do I feel that I am under any type of constraints. I know many catholic people, and they do not ever express that they are under any type of slavery or constraints.

In all the systems of society i.e. - the police, the government, the health system, schools etc... There are corrupt individuals who bring the system into disrepute. However, this does not necessarily mean that the system itself is at fault. It is the same with religion - priests who abuse there position of authority should face punishment for there actions, but this does not mean that religion as a concept is 'bad' or enforces slavery. The concept of Christianity, is that it sets people free from sin; not that it enslaves them, what does it enslave people to? Furthermore, we have a free choice if we want to believe in God or not, and if we want to follow a religion or not.

You do not have freedom of belief. In America, for the most part, the government respects your religious choices. But you don't have a choice in what you believe. I want so much to believe that there are many gods making descisions about the universe in a productive and efficient way, but I can't because it goes against every understanding of the universe. But it sure would explain a lot.

I think that because atheist don't believe in God, it is obvious that they will not see any sense in religion. And even regard it negatively. But I think that religion can be benficial to society, in the sense that it can create a community of like-minded people, who are all striving towards the betterment of the community and themselves. I follow the doctrine of Christianity, but I am not a slave nor do I feel that I am under any type of constraints. I know many catholic people, and they do not ever express that they are under any type of slavery or constraints.

In all the systems of society i.e. - the police, the government, the health system, schools etc... There are corrupt individuals who bring the system into disrepute. However, this does not necessarily mean that the system itself is at fault. It is the same with religion - priests who abuse there position of authority should face punishment for there actions, but this does not mean that religion as a concept is 'bad' or enforces slavery. The concept of Christianity, is that it sets people free from sin; not that it enslaves them, what does it enslave people to? Furthermore, we have a free choice if we want to believe in God or not, and if we want to follow a religion or not.

You may see it like that from your perspective fanman. I see my christian community as insular, divisive and demanding. It to my knowledge is only ever self serving. just like the local pigeon racers or the model train club. Fanatical interest in what the majority treat as insignificant. I do not mind their devotions but I do object to their intrusions.

Invictus, the real life horror story in the news now is worse than the fiction as told by Eyes of a stranger. The story about this Congolese religion in the news yesterday and today includes similar psychological manipulation by priests of religion who do really recommend killing, murder and torture to their flocks in order to purify witches in their midst. And those same priests making a lot of money for themselvesn thereby. It is true that religion when it is perpetrated upon ignorant, slavishly credulous people by amoral priests is dangerous and ugly.

...I haven't seen the story, but can you honestly say that it supports the thesis that "The original idea behind religion is slavery."?

The "original idea".

Do you think so?

No, not literally but I inferred that the spirit of the claim was that religions are often used to control peoples' behaviour by sanctions against people who ignore taboos, and by promises of rewards for good behaviour.In some religions the priest is charismatic or otherwise powerful and enslaves his flock to his commands,perhaps issuing terrorist fatwas for instance, or making his people break the law of the land to carry out an illegal religious ritual. The notion of enslavement is not hyperbole in some extreme cases.

Well then your inference was misplaced!

That something (say 'X') is in cases misused or misapplied is quite incomparable with "the original idea behind X is slavery".

Invictus, it is a matter of the magnitude of the 'slavery' use to which the would-be powerful harness our religious instincts. It is safe to claim that too much of human misbehaviour is caused by militant fatwas, religious terrorists, militant anti-abortionists,the Pope's strictures against condoms, ignorance and prejudices perpetuated by some religious teachers, and this latest horror to emerge into the public view the African witchcraft religion which now apparently flourishes in holes and corners in Britain

Hi Kingkool,

What do you mean when you say that I do not have freedom of belief?

Invictus, it is a matter of the magnitude of the 'slavery' use to which the would-be powerful harness our religious instincts. It is safe to claim that too much of human misbehaviour is caused by militant fatwas, religious terrorists, militant anti-abortionists [...] ignorance and prejudices perpetuated by some religious teachers, and this latest horror to emerge into the public view the African witchcraft religion which now apparently flourishes in holes and corners in Britain

Erm, those things are the misbehaviour, rather than they are the cause of it. But still, still after all these words typed, nobody has given any credible support to the assertion that "the original idea behind X is slavery".

Can we now, finally, accept that the statement is untenable?

Terribly sorry that I don't get much chance to write here. If my slavery correlation was so very indefensible, flawed, illogical, unsound, unsupportable and untenable then why the defensive posturing?
We are a species highly connected to each other. This connection can be exploited. That exploitation is done by creating guiding concepts that feel right but are at their core flawed.
I agree using the word slavery is a bit of an exaggeration but it seems people feel after being indoctrinated during their youth that they have a choice to change their mind later. That choice is not as clear as they believe. Hence the term slavery.
At the very core is doom and gloom threats that are just that much nonsense in this universe but they have an effect. I do like Fanman very much and he's clearly a very bright individual but he has taken his connection to nature that I share at the same level as him and has through anthropomorphism created in his mind a sky being.
Once I let a sky being become master and am told I must place the master first I have become a slave. I have at the very least become willing to accept that their are masters.
My personal life is my master. Free of man made concepts I can live free to make my beloved ones my ego. Any harm that comes to me is irrelevant so long as it doesn't disturb their lives. That's the focus of a man free from slavery.

Terribly sorry that I don't get much chance to write here. If my slavery correlation was so very indefensible, flawed, illogical, unsound, unsupportable and untenable then why the defensive posturing?
We are a species highly connected to each other. This connection can be exploited. That exploitation is done by creating guiding concepts that feel right but are at their core flawed.
I agree using the word slavery is a bit of an exaggeration but it seems people feel after being indoctrinated during their youth that they have a choice to change their mind later. That choice is not as clear as they believe. Hence the term slavery.
At the very core is doom and gloom threats that are just that much nonsense in this universe but they have an effect. I do like Fanman very much and he's clearly a very bright individual but he has taken his connection to nature that I share at the same level as him and has through anthropomorphism created in his mind a sky being.
Once I let a sky being become master and am told I must place the master first I have become a slave. I have at the very least become willing to accept that their are masters.
My personal life is my master. Free of man made concepts I can live free to make my beloved ones my ego. Any harm that comes to me is irrelevant so long as it doesn't disturb their lives. That's the focus of a man free from slavery.

If it is so ingrained from indoctrination, then why would people be converting to different religions everyday? Are there people who went to church with their parents and now that they are adults are athiest? Or are their any athiest that you can think of that became thiests? If these people do exist then in no way were they slaves to what indoctrinated them.

I apologize Parrot. and to everyone else offended by my words. I live my life by a difficult code for this stuff to pass. Very much like Carl Sagan's baloney detection kit from the book the Demon haunted world. Of course there are church goers that turn Atheist. I was raised as 啊Catholic church goer. I began exploring pseudo beliefs and found religions effect to be hallmark pseudo. From there I was lost to the slave owners. Reliability needs tested repeated results, I think this is fair, evidence is required, then confirmation of evidence, i believe this is fair given the structure of the human mind. Don't get angry with me I think these requirements are reasonable. I believe I live in a universe that would understand my reasoning. And not arbitrarily punish me for not being slave to reason.