If there is a God, why is there evil?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.

Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post Number:#2326  Postby -1- » August 27th, 2017, 10:07 am

Steve3007 wrote: i)I think a lot of religious people take the view that 4.3 is a necessary consequence of 4.4.

ii) If 4.2 is true, then the only power that God needs to lack in order for evil to exist is the power to dispense with the rules of logic and make the world chaotic and inconsistent. If the universe has to be logically consistent then things that we regard as bad have to happen.

iii) If 4.1 is true but 4.2 is false, then I guess God prefers Order to the absence of evil. Maybe He's Swiss.

i) can be refuted the easiest: there had been suffering and evil way before atheism reared its ugly head.

ii) many have claimed that god in his infinite power, can will to lack some of the powers, temporarily or indefinitely. So you are right in his point.

iii) I think it was God himself who said, in Leviticus 4:29, "Let there be time!! Coo-coo." So you're right again.
"You can always live without a lover, but you can't love without a liver."
User avatar
-1-
 
Posts: 712 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: December 1st, 2016, 2:23 am

Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?



Become a member for less ads

Already a member? Login
 

Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post Number:#2327  Postby Socrateaze » August 27th, 2017, 10:09 am

-1- wrote:The questions were actually serious... There are two types of humans, one type has a constant dialogue going on in their conscious, and they can only shut it up by meditating. The other kind never thinks in language, and can't meditate.

There have been thinkers who claimed that intelligence and thought are language- and therefore culture dependent. They are convinced that people who don't know any language don't know how to think and reason. This is false, in the case of perhaps everybody (the theory has not been tested) but it is for sure false for those who never need language to think.


Well, yeah, even animals can think and they often outsmart humans with less language. I get where you're coming from. So is religion also a language?
418


- If you can paint the wind, I will tell you the secrets of the soul.
User avatar
Socrateaze
 
Posts: 126 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: July 25th, 2017, 8:07 am
Favorite Philosopher: George Carlin

Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post Number:#2328  Postby -1- » August 27th, 2017, 10:12 am

Ranvier wrote:"Evil" is only evil in our selfish perception of our physical reality. If you ask bacteria or snail... well you won't get any answer.
Without "evil" there wouldn't be any evolution of life.

We are here just to learn :)


We are in complete agreement here, Ranvier. (Your preamble having been purged.)

Evil is what one man or tribe does to another. "You are always evil in the eyes of the competing tribe." Germans hated the Russians and the Jews. Americans hated Germans (in wwII.) The protestants in Ireland hate the RC, and the RC hate the protestants. Arabs hate Israelis. Israelis hate the arabs. Pakistanis hate the hindus. Hindus hate the pakistanis.

A mole or a sea-urchin has no hate in his heart for Jews, Pakistanis, Arabs.

-- Updated 2017 August 27th, 10:14 am to add the following --

Socrateaze wrote:
-1- wrote:The questions were actually serious... There are two types of humans, one type has a constant dialogue going on in their conscious, and they can only shut it up by meditating. The other kind never thinks in language, and can't meditate.

There have been thinkers who claimed that intelligence and thought are language- and therefore culture dependent. They are convinced that people who don't know any language don't know how to think and reason. This is false, in the case of perhaps everybody (the theory has not been tested) but it is for sure false for those who never need language to think.


Well, yeah, even animals can think and they often outsmart humans with less language. I get where you're coming from. So is religion also a language?


Thanks for the question... religion is many things... mostly useful. It's all in my book, which I can't advertise here, for fear of breaking the rules.
"You can always live without a lover, but you can't love without a liver."
User avatar
-1-
 
Posts: 712 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: December 1st, 2016, 2:23 am

Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post Number:#2329  Postby Socrateaze » August 27th, 2017, 10:15 am

-1- wrote:Socrateaze, the question was off-topic.

Evil: I already had my say in this topic. I'll repeat it for your sake:

1. Assumed that god is infinitely good.
2. Assumed that god is infinitely powerful.
3. Therefore evil and suffering ought not to be present in this world.
4. Therefore something has to give:
4.1. Maybe god is not infinitely good.
4.2. Maybe god is not infinitely powerful.
4.3. Maybe there is no evil and suffering in this world; it just seem so to us.
4.4. God does not exist in the first place

I find 4.4. most plausible,and 4.3. the least acceptable.

-- Updated 2017 August 27th, 9:48 am to add the following --

Steve3007 wrote:(Nested quote removed.)


If this is true, then perhaps the second kind are actually constantly in the state of mind that the first kind seek to achieve by meditating. One hand clapping, 24/7. If so, I suspect that the second kind are happier.


Does a tree make a sound when it falls in the forest?

Can a person measure up whether he is happier than the next person?

And I am sure the meditation only feels happy because it's relaxing. If someone keeps on relaxing all the time, then to him happiness will be excitement and action.

Also, those who don't think in words, still constantly think. They can't shut the thought process down. Only when they are asleep and dream are they at rest from thinking.

-- Updated 2017 August 27th, 9:52 am to add the following --

Socrateaze wrote:What is the most you ever have accomplished with an electronic device in your dream?

I zapped myself once with my electric blanket when I had a wet dream.


I can't be clearer on this. 4.3 is almost correct, but not quite; you should have a 4.3.1: The laws of the universe exist and we do not accept them, but rather create stories to explain them. I still believe there is no good and evil, because that would mean some guy in the sky had actually created this mess. I wish we had a psychologist in our group to break this down.

-- Updated August 27th, 2017, 10:17 am to add the following --

You zapped yourself with your eclectic blanket - maybe you should get a girlfriend.

-- Updated August 27th, 2017, 10:25 am to add the following --

-1-

Thanks for the question... religion is many things... mostly useful. It's all in my book, which I can't advertise here, for fear of breaking the rules.


Well, the question was more rhetorical in an attempt to move the conversation forward. Another question arises from this line of thinking; is language always sufficient? People DO seem to go around in circles at times. Perhaps we should start a philosophy forum called "The Circle of Philosophy Forum." We can all move around in groups as if we were at Mecca, because isn't that what we're doing venerating our ignorance?
418


- If you can paint the wind, I will tell you the secrets of the soul.
User avatar
Socrateaze
 
Posts: 126 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: July 25th, 2017, 8:07 am
Favorite Philosopher: George Carlin

Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post Number:#2330  Postby -1- » August 27th, 2017, 10:31 am

Socrateaze wrote:I still believe there is no good and evil, because that would mean some guy in the sky had actually created this mess. I wish we had a psychologist in our group to break this down.

Done deal. Please see post #2328 in this thread. Evil and good are concepts to keep psychological pressure on people for the purposes of society. So they are both evolutionary advantages to have.

Socrateaze wrote:You zapped yourself with your eclectic blanket - maybe you should get a girlfriend.

Have you ever had a boyfriend?

Have you ever been zapped by him? (As a manner of speaking.)

Which one was more painful? The zap by the blanket, or the zap by the boyfriend?
"You can always live without a lover, but you can't love without a liver."
User avatar
-1-
 
Posts: 712 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: December 1st, 2016, 2:23 am

Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post Number:#2331  Postby Socrateaze » August 27th, 2017, 10:39 am

-1- wrote:
Socrateaze wrote:I still believe there is no good and evil, because that would mean some guy in the sky had actually created this mess. I wish we had a psychologist in our group to break this down.

Done deal. Please see post #2328 in this thread. Evil and good are concepts to keep psychological pressure on people for the purposes of society. So they are both evolutionary advantages to have.

Socrateaze wrote:You zapped yourself with your eclectic blanket - maybe you should get a girlfriend.

Have you ever had a boyfriend?

Have you ever been zapped by him? (As a manner of speaking.)

Which one was more painful? The zap by the blanket, or the zap by the boyfriend?


I don't need to read post #2328 - it sounds like I would agree with it in anyway. :wink:

I've had too many boyfriends, but I must admit that it is quite fun when you add some pain. :!: I once had a boyfriend that was into heavy masochism and tied weights around his.... yeah. But this talk will get us into trouble on the forum. So let's try to stick to the topic.
418


- If you can paint the wind, I will tell you the secrets of the soul.
User avatar
Socrateaze
 
Posts: 126 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: July 25th, 2017, 8:07 am
Favorite Philosopher: George Carlin

Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post Number:#2332  Postby Ranvier » August 27th, 2017, 10:42 am

I'd say this:

It's almost... no I'm not even going to beat around the bush... It's irrational to thing that there is no "Energy" = God since the Universe exists and so are we.
The problem is in the struggle... war... more irrational thinking? In having audacity to think that ANY human has any idea what Energy = God is.
Theists perceive God one way in their specific religion, Atheists have the...whatever they have.

The only logical thing to do is to have an open mind to all knowledge and continue to learn... Period!

-- Updated August 27th, 2017, 10:43 am to add the following --

*Irrational to think

-- Updated August 27th, 2017, 10:44 am to add the following --

*so do we
User avatar
Ranvier
 
Posts: 454 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: February 12th, 2017, 1:47 pm

Re: If there is a God, why is there evil?

Post Number:#2333  Postby Socrateaze » August 27th, 2017, 11:15 am

Ranvier wrote:I'd say this:

It's almost... no I'm not even going to beat around the bush... It's irrational to thing that there is no "Energy" = God since the Universe exists and so are we.
The problem is in the struggle... war... more irrational thinking? In having audacity to think that ANY human has any idea what Energy = God is.
Theists perceive God one way in their specific religion, Atheists have the...whatever they have.

The only logical thing to do is to have an open mind to all knowledge and continue to learn... Period!

-- Updated August 27th, 2017, 10:43 am to add the following --

*Irrational to think

-- Updated August 27th, 2017, 10:44 am to add the following --

*so do we



It is good to continue to learn as long as we don't run in circles. Maybe we're spiraling out to a greater truth, but we're forever running in circles. It's simpler to suspend with the terminology we created and begin with reality. One should not dress god up and play dollhouse.
418


- If you can paint the wind, I will tell you the secrets of the soul.
User avatar
Socrateaze
 
Posts: 126 (View: All / In topic)

Joined: July 25th, 2017, 8:07 am
Favorite Philosopher: George Carlin

Previous

Return to Philosophy of Religion, Theism and Mythology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Philosophy Trophies

Most Active Members
by posts made in lasts 30 days

Avatar Member Name Recent Posts
Greta 162
Fooloso4 116
Renee 107
Ormond 97
Felix 90

Last updated January 6, 2017, 6:28 pm EST

Most Active Book of the Month Participants
by book of the month posts

Avatar Member Name BOTM Posts
Scott 147
Spectrum 23
Belinda 23
whitetrshsoldier 20
Josefina1110 19
Last updated January 6, 2017, 6:28 pm EST