Exactly what is FREE WILL?

I think you nailed it James with the word absolutes. There can be no absolutes.

Hi Xris,

I think that to believe that we humans do not have free-will is a pessimistic approach to the subject, based upon negative inferences of being imprisoned by circumstances which can effect freedom of choice. From my perspective, I have free-will to decide what course my life will take. Of course my decisions can be influenced by circumstances, but I still have free-will to choose what type of person I am going to be, to make moral choices, to choose what I am going to eat, whether I exercise or not, if I will study a subject a University, the list choices that I have free-will to make are too many to describe here.

I think that we humans having free-will, allows us to shape our person and our lives.

So what can destroy our ability to exert our free will? Brain damage? A terrible childhood with no moral teaching? Witness to the killing of our family? Left with nothing to eat but human flesh? Do you think if men acted because of their experiences and acted immorally they would be exerting their free will? You appear to telling me that free will is the ability to do good because you have had good experiences and a moral education. A wolf has as much free will as you or I with these examples. So what is so special about mans free will?

Did I say in my post that there was anything 'special' about a man's free-will? No I didn't. You asserted it and are questioning me as if I said it. Why don't you answer your own question that you asserted? So Xris, what is so special about man's free-will?

Hi Xris,

I think that to believe that we humans do not have free-will is a pessimistic approach to the subject, based upon negative inferences of being imprisoned by circumstances which can effect freedom of choice. From my perspective, I have free-will to decide what course my life will take. Of course my decisions can be influenced by circumstances, but I still have free-will to choose what type of person I am going to be, to make moral choices, to choose what I am going to eat, whether I exercise or not, if I will study a subject a University, the list choices that I have free-will to make are too many to describe here.

I think that we humans having free-will, allows us to shape our person and our lives.

So what can destroy our ability to exert our free will? Brain damage? A terrible childhood with no moral teaching? Witness to the killing of our family? Left with nothing to eat but human flesh? Do you think if men acted because of their experiences and acted immorally they would be exerting their free will? You appear to telling me that free will is the ability to do good because you have had good experiences and a moral education. A wolf has as much free will as you or I with these examples. So what is so special about mans free will?

Did I say in my post that there was anything 'special' about a man's free-will? No I didn't. You asserted it and are questioning me as if I said it. Why don't you answer your own question that you asserted? So Xris, what is so special about man's free-will?

when the individual is damaged by circumstance there is very little to choose between a wolfs and mans. As James adequately stated there are degrees of freedom. You just propose it is god given. If it was god given why is it not perfect or did god want us to be imperfect?

Hi Xris,

Again, you are asserting a premise as if it was my disposition or a premise that I suggested. Did I suggest that free-will is perfect or imperfect? No you did. I asserted that we have free-will and plenty of choices to make. Which is true in my opinion.

Hi Xris,

Again, you are asserting a premise as if it was my disposition or a premise that I suggested. Did I suggest that free-will is perfect or imperfect? No you did. I asserted that we have free-will and plenty of choices to make. Which is true in my opinion.

So was it gift from god and is it perfect?

Do you think that human beings free-will was a perfect gift from your god nature? Or is free-will a result of evolution? Furthermore, if your god nature is not sentient, how do you explain it's striving for perfection?

Do you think that human beings free-will was a perfect gift from your god nature? Or is free-will a result of evolution? Furthermore, if your god nature is not sentient, how do you explain it's striving for perfection?

Why should it require a conscious ability? are you denying nature created you? I have only ability not freedom. Now please answer the question Fanman. Do you believe your god gave you free will and is it perfect?

Hi Xris,

I am not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions.

Hi Xris,

I am not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions.

Fanman this question is not rhetoric. It requires an answer, it is not a statement.It must be difficult but you do need to answer it.

Hey, happy you are all around.
My little lace pocket has many great stories, here is the another one:

There is a madman who just killed himself. His soul was harvested by a spacecraft and brought up to the heaven.

"Sinner", God in a private audience with the soul of the madman, "repent!".
The soul insisted, "make me the nothingness!".

God was fully aware men was made by the image of God, any doubt of men is the doubt of his godhood, so he circled his eyes, "Ding!".
"To deny Free Will is to raise the problem of personal responsibility", said the God.
"Make me the responsible!", the soul persisted.

"It is human nature to seek for the good", said the patient God, "Reason and feelings should not be thought of as 'Free Will' since they are caused".
"Made me the 'the good' to be defined", the soul blinked both his eyes.

"Does God have free will?", said the God, "I doubt too", "but we have the choice to not want for what you can't have".
The soul blinked only one of his eyes, smiled. He gave a gentle pat on the back of God, said the madman, "you have the choice to decide which of the many possibilities for which to yearn and reach too".
"Total ontological freedom allows for no existence.", the mad epigon copied.

"Hey, happy you are all around." said the God, "so... repent!".
"Make me the nothingness!", is repeated, "there can be no absolutes"
God slapped his face, "Jesus! all roads lead to the atomic bomb, the omega, the alpha!".

Ok, pals, Of course, "Make me the nothingness!" is still, a free choice too.
Or how can there be no absolutes ?

-- Updated Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:10 pm to add the following --

Be ready to surrender, or you must outwit the God.

Hi Xris,

I am not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions.

Fanman this question is not rhetoric. It requires an answer, it is not a statement.It must be difficult but you do need to answer it.

I didn't say that the question was "rhetoric."I quite clearly said that it was r-h-e-t-o-r-i-c-a-l. Meaning, that the answer is obvious. Therefore, I repeat, that I am not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions. Furthermore, this is not a court room, I don't "need" to answer anything. I will answer what I choose to. You are over-stepping boundaries.

Hi Xris,

I am not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions.

Fanman this question is not rhetoric. It requires an answer, it is not a statement.It must be difficult but you do need to answer it.

I didn't say that the question was "rhetoric."I quite clearlyy said that it was r-h-e-t-o-r-i-c-a-l. Meaning, that the answer is obvious. Therefore, I repeat, that I am not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions. Furthermore, this is not a court room, I don't "need" to answer anything. I will answer what I choose to. You are over-stepping boundaries.

OK the question was not rhetorical. If it's so obvious why can you not answer it and why am I overstepping the boundaries? What boundaries exactly? I can understand your reticence but it does require an answer.

Ok, if you want to be cute, I can be cute too. You know that I am a theist who believes in the God of Christianity. You were also once a believer in the God of Christianity. It is common knowledge that the God of Christianity is described as being "perfect." Therefore, everything that he created must be perfect likewise. He created free-will and therefore free-will must be... See, the answer is rhetorical.

If you cannot see that the question you're asking is rhetorical, then you must be intellectually blind, or I must be very intellectually observant .

Ok, if you want to be cute, I can be cute too. You know that I am a theist who believes in the God of Christianity. You were also once a believer in the God of Christianity. It is common knowledge that the God of Christianity is described as being "perfect." Therefore, everything that he created must be perfect likewise. He created free-will and therefore free-will must be... See, the answer is rhetorical.

If you cannot see that the question you're asking is rhetorical, then you must be intellectually blind, or I must be very intellectually observant .

You needed to make your beliefs clear. So you believe our free will is perfect and the arguments that we have seen admitting it is flawed are all wrong? At least we have clearly stated christian view.

If you recall you did say human free will is not something special. So animals have this gift as well?

Ok, pals, Of course, "Make me the nothingness!" is still, a free choice too.
Or how can there be no absolutes ?

The option to become an absolute is forbidden. Nothingness is an absolute, thus not a free choice.



"Be ready to surrender, or you must outwit the God."

-- Updated Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:28 pm to add the following --

If you cannot see that the question you're asking is rhetorical, then you must be intellectually blind, or I must be very intellectually observant .

..or both intolerably presumptuous (the very seed of all sin).