Exactly what is FREE WILL?

Free will is a human concept so it must be flawed in the true sense but then if you have no values or preconceived ideas you would not be able to exert your will at all.

This is a great quote Xris, why are so many human concepts flawed?

Parro.I believe perfection is impossible. Even if there was a god the concept would be questioned. Attempting to be as perfect as you can is sufficient.

Perhaps we have "limited" free will?

But it does seem that at some point in each individuals life , there comes a time when regardless of the influence of our family, our friends, our society, our government, we must make a choice between what our personal experience tells us is the "Truth" and what everyone else says is the "Truth"

Anyone who loves their family's and society's truth more than they love the Truth which is revealed to them through their own experiences, is not worthy of the Truth. Do unto others as you believe others should do unto you. Yes life experiences can color what you believe others should do unto you , but I believe at some point in life one becomes enlightened by the unfiltered spirit of divine truth. Then they are free to make their choice to cling to the filtered truth of others, or grab on to the pure truth of enlightenment. Although I may be wrong.

Free will, are you talking about the human ability to exert it's ability or perfect free will, unencumbered by external influences? We have the free will to decide dependant on lifes experiences. The later, perfect, is an impossiblity. Whatever you consume or are influenced by will destroy any ability to act from a perfect view point. Judging free will is not about judging the individual but understanding how that freedom was influenced. So yes we have free will.

The problem I wrestle with is that physics etc. directly imply that we do not have free will, but yet I (and you) write here and think exactly as we want (for example). I have trouble believing that all our thoughts are pre-determined.

According to me, FREE WILL is the independent and carefree attitude of working or thinking on something at your full discretion, at a particular given period of time.

In addition to this, I think we need to consider another aspect of it as well. The aspect of "unwanted intrusion". In other words, FREE WILL is something that you do at your own discretion, provided that you've ascertained that whatever you're doing will not, in any way, offend or intrude others in their privacy, or bestow burden on them.

Doesn't one's view of free will depend on how wealthy one is? Money buys a lot.

Free will is a human concept so it must be flawed in the true sense but then if you have no values or preconceived ideas you would not be able to exert your will at all.

This is a great quote Xris, why are so many human concepts flawed?

Parro.I believe perfection is impossible. Even if there was a god the concept would be questioned. Attempting to be as perfect as you can is sufficient.

So is perfection immposible for humans to attain? or anything to attain? Perhaps it is just another one of those over used adjectives used to describe things that seem perfect. Why do we have a concept of perfection if it does not exist?

Free will is will that is not confined or bound by anything. Free will exists the same way freedom in America exists. Are we truly free in this country to do whatever we want? No, but do we live in a free country? Yes. Is are will completly free to decide things for us? No. Do we have free will? Yes.

Misty, Rich people have more freedom of movement than the rest of us, but mobility and free will are different animals. A person's free will is directly proportional to self-knowledge. The more money a person has the more likely that person is to be enslaved to protecting it and the less energy she/he has to expend on enlightening the mind--the only place where the option for free will exists. The mass of men live lives of mental co

Misty, Rich people have more freedom of movement than the rest of us, but mobility and free will are different animals. A person's free will is directly proportional to self-knowledge. The more money a person has the more likely that person is to be enslaved to protecting it and the less energy she/he has to expend on enlightening the mind--the only place where the option for free will exists. The mass of men live lives of mental co

Eston,

Good to see you on the forum - you were misssed! Is your view similar to that of Dr. Frankl who wrote about the holocaust that free will is linked to ones survival, by finding a reason to live?

Was your last sentence complete?

Misty

Hmm...methink, would it be "the mass of men live lives of mental Cookooing"?

-- Updated Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:33 am to add the following --

Eston were misssed! Nobody miss the panther, rabbit, madman and rat; nobody write me an animal story!

Woe is human philosophy has no a humorous vein!

"Ok, I am going go fix it", said Socrates, "have you to be interviewed by me!".

dparrott wrote: Free will is will that is not confined or bound by anything. Free will exists the same way freedom in America exists. Are we truly free in this country to do whatever we want? No, but do we live in a free country? Yes. Is are will completly free to decide things for us? No. Do we have free will? Yes.[/quote]

If humans truly had free will - personal will that is free - there would be no boundaries. Humans, while some choices are at our disposal - (and that varies from government to government) free will is limited by boundaries set by the life and death cycle and the workings within the universe. If one had true free will one would never die (unless they wanted to die) or be in a situation they could not 'will' themselves removed. Choice is also limited - good or evil - one could argue indifference to be a choice but it is not as ultimately will fall under good or evil. If I had free will I would make all of you agree with me - but then I could not do that could I, as your free will would get in the way.

The problem I wrestle with is that physics etc. directly imply that we do not have free will, but yet I (and you) write here and think exactly as we want (for example). I have trouble believing that all our thoughts are pre-determined.

I now think that one of the functions of the sub-conscious is to create useful illusions for its slave (the conscious) - free will is one of these useful illusions. I need to do more work on how free will is a useful illusion, and how this illusion is generated.

Misty, Rich people have more freedom of movement than the rest of us, but mobility and free will are different animals. A person's free will is directly proportional to self-knowledge. The more money a person has the more likely that person is to be enslaved to protecting it and the less energy she/he has to expend on enlightening the mind--the only place where the option for free will exists. The mass of men live lives of mental co

Does that mean poor people who are to be enslaved to earning money have more free will?

-- Updated May 7th, 2012, 2:08 am to add the following --

To me, free will is to fully understand the choices you have and choose from them freely. There is no absolute free will in this world. We can never beat the limitations because we ourselves are a part of it.

I believe that free will and destiny co-exist side by side. That is what I think life is all about. You are born with a plan when you incarnate and then once you are here in the physical plane of existence you live out your life by making choices of your own free will. Sometimes we succeed and sometimes we fail.

We cannot control all around us, only our choices and actions. So, we exert our 'free will' on that set of circumstances we have been given, or into which we are born.

What exactly is Free Will?? Dictionary - free will - the power of independent action and choice. I have never understood the idea that 'individuals' truly have free will. We are born without our permission, carried by the current of life of which most is out of my control, die without my permission at a time I do not get to choose. I sometimes choose things in my life but they are all choices governed by other limitations and circumstances also not my choice. So free will in my opinion is a myth fostered by whatever controls humans, and includes humans controlling other humans.

I feel quite certain that I have some free will, although not complete control as evidenced by your examples above. I can move my arm here or move it there. Unfortunately, if I look at a caterpillar, it also seems to move its head here or there and it appears to be exercising its will. So I suspect that in fact we do not have free will, but that the chain of command is so long through millions of neurones we will never be able to follow it through to prove it was not free will.